Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

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very worried husband
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:20 am

Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby very worried husband » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:43 pm

Dear All,

Sorry if my question is dumb. but is possible to have recurrence with normal CEA/ CA19-9? i know anything is possible with the disease, but just want to know from your experience. CEA was never a good marker for my wife to begin with. Her last CEA in May was 1.5 ( I think!) and now it is 1.20. She had her yearly Colonoscopy in August, which was clear. BUt her CT scan showed a 6mm lung nodule in lung base. The Onc ordered another thorax CT and it showed 2 spts, 7mm and 6mm!
They are still not sure what they are, and want to repeat the scan in 2 months time.
Sorry if this question has been asked before, but i would appreciate your input.
Thanks in advance..
Caregiver to Wife age25
Diagnosed Colon IIIB Jan2011
7/29 Nodes +
5FU+Oxi in china. Feb-Aug 2011
CEA@Diagnose:0.79
Immunological chemistry: Ki-67 (+), MSH2(+), MLH1(++), ERCC1 (-)
NED Supplements: Aspirin,Vit D,Calcium, Genoderma Lucidium
Baby born June 2015 :D :D :)

janklo
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:10 pm
Facebook Username: JanetKlostermann

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby janklo » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:08 pm

Unfortunately, this is quite possible. My daughter's CEA was high (like in the 1000s) when diagnosed, but then after surgery and chemo, it always stayed at 2.5. She did have a peritoneal recurrence and CEA remained low. CA19-9 did elevate and when she was on chemo, it would go down, it was a good marker for her. But it just shows you, everyone is different and your wife could have perfectly normal tumor markers, but still have something going on.
Mom to 28 yo daughter
colectomy 2/22/10, stage 3C, signet cell
7/2011 peritoneal mets
HIPEC September 2012, difficult recovery
Hospice 10/31/2012, Died 11/16/2012

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Rob in PA
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Rob in PA » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:20 pm

CEA was a good marker for me when I had my liver mets (it spiked and tipped off my onc that something was going on), but when I had lung mets two different times the CEA was normal.

Also, for what it is worth...6mm and 7mm mets are on the small size and you should try not to worry about the two month wait. I've done the wait and see approach three times before and twice it was nothing....third time it was lung mets.

Rob
dx 11/07 crc IIIb @ 39
Xelox/Rad/ temp colostomy
LAR/J-pouch/ temp ileo
Folfox-8
Failed reversal
2/09 liver mets; liver resect/ileo reversal
Folfiri/Avastin - 12
2/11 5 lung mets
Folfiri/Avastin 2011
SBRT 3/12
Lung met 5/13/ said NO to more chemo
SBRT 8/13
2 lung mets 5/14, VATS 8/14, NED

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very worried husband
Posts: 130
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Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby very worried husband » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:54 pm

Thanks Janklo and Rob in PA for your replies. hard to be not obsessive when something shows up on CT. I am mentally prepared for the worst, as my wife only had a bad infection last year around her last CT scan.
My wife thinks otherwise. She thinks they will just go away when she comes back from her home country. She went to see her father, who is also dealing with final stage lungs cancer....... I wish it was that simple!!
Caregiver to Wife age25
Diagnosed Colon IIIB Jan2011
7/29 Nodes +
5FU+Oxi in china. Feb-Aug 2011
CEA@Diagnose:0.79
Immunological chemistry: Ki-67 (+), MSH2(+), MLH1(++), ERCC1 (-)
NED Supplements: Aspirin,Vit D,Calcium, Genoderma Lucidium
Baby born June 2015 :D :D :)

Cb75
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Cb75 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:17 pm

My cea and ca 19 have always been normal and still all. It really is all up in the air and confusing. If hers has always been in the normal range the spots could be anything. Its hard to watch and wait...,
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

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very worried husband
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby very worried husband » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:20 pm

cb75 thanks for your reply. i think my wife is following your footsteps... did they do the genetic testing ? my wife has lynch syndrome that explains her cancer at young age.we hope and pray that it is anything but cancer..
Caregiver to Wife age25
Diagnosed Colon IIIB Jan2011
7/29 Nodes +
5FU+Oxi in china. Feb-Aug 2011
CEA@Diagnose:0.79
Immunological chemistry: Ki-67 (+), MSH2(+), MLH1(++), ERCC1 (-)
NED Supplements: Aspirin,Vit D,Calcium, Genoderma Lucidium
Baby born June 2015 :D :D :)

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Voxx66
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Facebook Username: Michael Void Ward

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Voxx66 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:38 pm

Some tumors seem to produce CEA while others don't. I'm not sure the science on the whole matter is settled However it does seem that liver mets tend to cause a CEA rise as the liver damage alone will jump the levels. My cea was normal when I had my colon tumor but jumped after the surgery when the liver mets took off.
DX and resect 10/2012 age 46
Stage IIa CRC
liver mets both lobes 8/2013
CEA 28
FOLFOX + Avastin 8/26/13 3 rounds
Folfox only 3 rds + rd 8
platelets low round 7,9,10 5FU only
1/14 CEA 1.0 y90
5fu
10/14 mets lung and peri
1/15 Folfiri

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Bev G
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Facebook Username: Bev Golde
Location: Quechee, VT

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Bev G » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 pm

Voxx66 wrote:Some tumors seem to produce CEA while others don't. I'm not sure the science on the whole matter is settled However it does seem that liver mets tend to cause a CEA rise as the liver damage alone will jump the levels. My cea was normal when I had my colon tumor but jumped after the surgery when the liver mets took off.


Voxx-

Where did you read that?

Bev
58 yo Type1 DM 48 years
12/09 Stage IV 2/22 nodes + liver met, colon resec
3 tx FOLFIRI, liver resec 4/10
9/10 6 mos off chemo, Neg PET&CTC CEA nl
2/11 finished total 10 rounds chemo

9/13 ^17th clean PET/CT NED for now

Cb75
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Cb75 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:54 pm

very worried husband wrote:cb75 thanks for your reply. i think my wife is following your footsteps... did they do the genetic testing ? my wife has lynch syndrome that explains her cancer at young age.we hope and pray that it is anything but cancer..


I had genetic testing done after my liver surgery. There was no known genetic link found. However, I do have a family history. This is what lead to my colonoscopy. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone.
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

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GreenMonkey
Posts: 336
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:43 am
Contact:

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby GreenMonkey » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:09 pm

I have a CEA of 1.4 and 2 spots on my right lung. one is 8 mm and the other is 3mm. my doctors don't think its anything (partially because of its shape). will follow up with another scan in a few months. I'm trying not to focus on it yet because tomorrow is my LAR surgery.
RC - T3NXMX depth of invasion 3mm - diagnosed 5/26/13 age 53
High Dose, Internal Radiation at Johns Hopkins resulted in a PCR
LAR 9/10/13 - 0-26 nodes. CEA 1.9 post surgery
XELOX started 10/21/13(8 rounds)
11/14 NED
greenmonkeytales.blogspot.com

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Voxx66
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Facebook Username: Michael Void Ward

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Voxx66 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 pm

Bev - I was researching other reasons for CEA increases besides cancer recurrence when my levels jumped. Grasping at straws I guess. Anything that damages the liver can cause elevated CEA levels from Cirrhosis to benign tumors to other types of disease. But again - the usual reason is exactly the one I didn't want it to be.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003574.htm

There are other sites that probably go into more detail but this is a start.
DX and resect 10/2012 age 46
Stage IIa CRC
liver mets both lobes 8/2013
CEA 28
FOLFOX + Avastin 8/26/13 3 rounds
Folfox only 3 rds + rd 8
platelets low round 7,9,10 5FU only
1/14 CEA 1.0 y90
5fu
10/14 mets lung and peri
1/15 Folfiri

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Voxx66
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:22 pm
Facebook Username: Michael Void Ward

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby Voxx66 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:52 pm

Oh - found some more info on markers -

http://www.oncolink.org/treatment/artic ... 251&id=296
DX and resect 10/2012 age 46
Stage IIa CRC
liver mets both lobes 8/2013
CEA 28
FOLFOX + Avastin 8/26/13 3 rounds
Folfox only 3 rds + rd 8
platelets low round 7,9,10 5FU only
1/14 CEA 1.0 y90
5fu
10/14 mets lung and peri
1/15 Folfiri

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very worried husband
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Recurrence With Normal CEA/ CA19-9

Postby very worried husband » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:21 am

Thanks Voxx66 for sharing the links.

GreenMonkey! best of luck with your LAR.

Cb75: Coloncancer at young age does show that it has something to do with the genetics.
Caregiver to Wife age25
Diagnosed Colon IIIB Jan2011
7/29 Nodes +
5FU+Oxi in china. Feb-Aug 2011
CEA@Diagnose:0.79
Immunological chemistry: Ki-67 (+), MSH2(+), MLH1(++), ERCC1 (-)
NED Supplements: Aspirin,Vit D,Calcium, Genoderma Lucidium
Baby born June 2015 :D :D :)


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