Stability of lung mets…

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Bianca10
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:46 pm

Stability of lung mets…

Postby Bianca10 » Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:09 am

Hey,
After initial shrinkage of the largest lung met being reviewed for scans (a few are too small to measure is my understanding, we’re in a trial) we now have stability on the 2nd scan following 6 cycles of folifiri/avastin.
Has anyone had longish term success where chemo has just kept the mets stable, but still visible on scans/similar.
Looking for some nice stories that exclude NED :)

@achillestorn did you have NED or still some disease visible?

stu
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby stu » Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:36 am

Hi Bianca ,

It’s kind of hard to tell with my mum how long her disease has been active in her lungs . She had a nodules show up in 2014 and a met removed in 2016 . Then we thought all nodules were benign and she was actually discharged during covid although she did have a few CEA spikes that went back down and still no evidence of growth . But since discharge they grew . Incidental spotting of them along with some lymph nodes in 2022 . Started treatment for them six months later when they grew to around 2cm but due to other circumstances just used Cetuximab for nine months . Shrank everything down . Lymph nodes disappeared and the 3 and 4 mm only grew 1 mm in six months .
She is off treatment as it’s now too toxic at her age but given her primary tumour was removed way back in 2010 her immune system seems to have been able to keep things in check with the odd intervention .
Compared to her liver mets the lung mets are so much slower growing for her . Her target tumour is now down to 1 cm and with the intervention has not changed in nearly a year .

Her mets are not in areas that would particularly compromise her airways . Met lots of people over the years who are in long term management with lung mets . My own friend had a different primary but actually had untreated lung mets for six years. She coughed a lot but had absolutely no treatment .

The amazing thing about this story my mum has not had chemo since 2010 I think !!! Then Cetuximab in 2022 . Her lung mets are apparently all part of the original spread with the primary being removed in 2010 .

Her surgeon was adamant that there is a lot they still don’t know about the behaviour of lung mets. But I guess she was never NED !

Take care and I wish every success with treatment .
Stu
supporter to my mum who lives a great life despite a difficult diagnosis
stage4 2009 significant spread to liver
2010 colon /liver resection
chemo following recurrence
73% of liver removed
enjoying life treatment free
2016 lung resection
Oct 2017 nice clear scan . Two lung nodules disappeared
Oct 2018. Another clear scan .

stu
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby stu » Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:39 am

Should also say we are in the U.K. . My mum is not opposed to treatment . They treat visible disease as chemo options are more limited . Where there was a window of opportunity for treatment she grabbed it .
Take care ,
Stu
supporter to my mum who lives a great life despite a difficult diagnosis
stage4 2009 significant spread to liver
2010 colon /liver resection
chemo following recurrence
73% of liver removed
enjoying life treatment free
2016 lung resection
Oct 2017 nice clear scan . Two lung nodules disappeared
Oct 2018. Another clear scan .

rp1954
Posts: 1855
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby rp1954 » Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:58 pm

Bianca10 wrote:Has anyone had longish term success where chemo has just kept the mets stable, but still visible on scans/similar.
Looking for some nice stories that exclude NED :)

We can only claim one lung nodule that disappeared, along with several liver nodules plus stability in multiple LN when immunochemo reached some threshold (and growth when violated). Some papers showed that even mild daily chemo (missing the ++++s here) could temporarily stabilize mets in a fraction of terminal patients after regular cyclical chemo failed.

Presumably mets masses affect this balance with more demand, and larger ones especially.

stu wrote:It’s kind of hard to tell with my mum how long her disease has been active in her lungs . She had a nodules show up in 2014 and a met removed in 2016 . Then we thought all nodules were benign and she was actually discharged during covid although she did have a few CEA spikes that went back down and still no evidence of growth . But since discharge they grew . Incidental spotting of them along with some lymph nodes in 2022 . Started treatment for them six months later when they grew to around 2cm but due to other circumstances just used Cetuximab for nine months . Shrank everything down . Lymph nodes disappeared and the 3 and 4 mm only grew 1 mm in six months .
She is off treatment as it’s now too toxic at her age but given her primary tumour was removed way back in 2010 her immune system seems to have been able to keep things in check with the odd intervention .
Compared to her liver mets the lung mets are so much slower growing for her . Her target tumour is now down to 1 cm and with the intervention has not changed in nearly a year .

Stu, have you tracked your mom's actual vitamin D blood levels? (really D3+K2+magnesium)
Immune related stasis and the body's "dissolving power" are affected by a lot of things, but inflammation and vitamin D levels are two things that can be directly measured, and treated. With my wife, removal of large stuff (surgeries 1 and 2) made it easier to reach the stasis and"dissolving" thresholds, growth of larger things made it tougher. So surgery #2 and addition of megavitamin D3+K2 were the events closest to my wife's liver nodules shrinking or disappearing, after Dr J. J. Prendergast's consult. Prendergast's position was that cancer nodules can shrink and disappear after some months of megavitamin D3+K2. (his 50,000 - 100,000 iu D3/day based treatment plan (without chemo), based on decades of research and experience, would peak patients at ~1200ng/mL(!) vs 2 - 30 of most D3 naive cancer patients)

Also vitamin C and digestive (replacement) demands can go way up with age. My mom experienced huge pressure sores at nursing homes, despite specific attention even at high end places. So we arranged for a daily nurse and moved her long distance to our house. First thing, the nurse shoveled down 10,000 mg/d of vitamin C with digestive supplements; the pressure sores quickly disappeared long term.

I might note, that years later, some liver remanent needed megavitamin K2 + IV(C) + 5FU + celecoxib to get my wife's AFP (liver/cancer marker) to respond after 5+ doublings, then stabilize and remain inactive for my wife's CA199/AFP/CEA related biology(s).
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper chemo to almost nothing mid 2018, IV C-->2021. Now supplements

Achilles Torn
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby Achilles Torn » Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:05 pm

I’ve had visible lung Mets relatively stable for over a year on minimal chemo. They show some slow growth but my Oncologist doesn’t really worry about them.
Diagnosed as 40 yo Male. BC Canada. Sigmoid Colectomy Dec. 2016
Pathology T3N2bM1 19 of 24 Nodes Positive + tumour deposits
PET scan - Para-Aortic and Iliac Lymph node spread. Stage VI.
Moderately differentiated. MSS. KRAS/BRAF Wild.
Mutations: TP53, ERBB4, MLL3, PDCD1LG2, PRKDC, SMAD3
FOLFOX + Bevacizumab Commenced Jan 9/2017 PET Scan July 2017 - on maintenance 5FU/Bev every 2 weeks.
Progression after Covid19 induced break June 2020. Resume Maintenance chemo of Capecitabine and Bev

Bianca10
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:46 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby Bianca10 » Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:25 pm

Achilles Torn wrote:I’ve had visible lung Mets relatively stable for over a year on minimal chemo. They show some slow growth but my Oncologist doesn’t really worry about them.


Good to hear from you, and thanks for commenting on my post!
How are you doing? Still maintenance chemo?
Hope you’re as well as can be.

Bianca10
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:46 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby Bianca10 » Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:26 pm

rp1954 wrote:
Bianca10 wrote:Has anyone had longish term success where chemo has just kept the mets stable, but still visible on scans/similar.
Looking for some nice stories that exclude NED :)

We can only claim one lung nodule that disappeared, along with several liver nodules plus stability in multiple LN when immunochemo reached some threshold (and growth when violated). Some papers showed that even mild daily chemo (missing the ++++s here) could temporarily stabilize mets in a fraction of terminal patients after regular cyclical chemo failed.

Presumably mets masses affect this balance with more demand, and larger ones especially.

stu wrote:It’s kind of hard to tell with my mum how long her disease has been active in her lungs . She had a nodules show up in 2014 and a met removed in 2016 . Then we thought all nodules were benign and she was actually discharged during covid although she did have a few CEA spikes that went back down and still no evidence of growth . But since discharge they grew . Incidental spotting of them along with some lymph nodes in 2022 . Started treatment for them six months later when they grew to around 2cm but due to other circumstances just used Cetuximab for nine months . Shrank everything down . Lymph nodes disappeared and the 3 and 4 mm only grew 1 mm in six months .
She is off treatment as it’s now too toxic at her age but given her primary tumour was removed way back in 2010 her immune system seems to have been able to keep things in check with the odd intervention .
Compared to her liver mets the lung mets are so much slower growing for her . Her target tumour is now down to 1 cm and with the intervention has not changed in nearly a year .

Stu, have you tracked your mom's actual vitamin D blood levels? (really D3+K2+magnesium)
Immune related stasis and the body's "dissolving power" are affected by a lot of things, but inflammation and vitamin D levels are two things that can be directly measured, and treated. With my wife, removal of large stuff (surgeries 1 and 2) made it easier to reach the stasis and"dissolving" thresholds, growth of larger things made it tougher. So surgery #2 and addition of megavitamin D3+K2 were the events closest to my wife's liver nodules shrinking or disappearing, after Dr J. J. Prendergast's consult. Prendergast's position was that cancer nodules can shrink and disappear after some months of megavitamin D3+K2. (his 50,000 - 100,000 iu D3/day based treatment plan (without chemo), based on decades of research and experience, would peak patients at ~1200ng/mL(!) vs 2 - 30 of most D3 naive cancer patients)

Also vitamin C and digestive (replacement) demands can go way up with age. My mom experienced huge pressure sores at nursing homes, despite specific attention even at high end places. So we arranged for a daily nurse and moved her long distance to our house. First thing, the nurse shoveled down 10,000 mg/d of vitamin C with digestive supplements; the pressure sores quickly disappeared long term.

I might note, that years later, some liver remanent needed megavitamin K2 + IV(C) + 5FU + celecoxib to get my wife's AFP (liver/cancer marker) to respond after 5+ doublings, then stabilize and remain inactive for my wife's CA199/AFP/CEA related biology(s).


Thanks RP for always taking the time and being super informative in your responses, appreciated.
Will up the vit D and trying to get more IV c scheduled!

Achilles Torn
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby Achilles Torn » Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:05 pm

I’m doing ok. My chemo for now is just a Zirabev (bevacuzimab/avastin). Been having other health issues maybe from all the treatments but maybe cancer that’s keeping treatment light until they can figure it out. I think I’m trying to get every possible medical test devised.

But I’m here plugging away and watching my boys grow up.

Cheers
AT
Diagnosed as 40 yo Male. BC Canada. Sigmoid Colectomy Dec. 2016
Pathology T3N2bM1 19 of 24 Nodes Positive + tumour deposits
PET scan - Para-Aortic and Iliac Lymph node spread. Stage VI.
Moderately differentiated. MSS. KRAS/BRAF Wild.
Mutations: TP53, ERBB4, MLL3, PDCD1LG2, PRKDC, SMAD3
FOLFOX + Bevacizumab Commenced Jan 9/2017 PET Scan July 2017 - on maintenance 5FU/Bev every 2 weeks.
Progression after Covid19 induced break June 2020. Resume Maintenance chemo of Capecitabine and Bev

Bianca10
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:46 pm

Re: Stability of lung mets…

Postby Bianca10 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:24 am

Achilles Torn wrote:I’m doing ok. My chemo for now is just a Zirabev (bevacuzimab/avastin). Been having other health issues maybe from all the treatments but maybe cancer that’s keeping treatment light until they can figure it out. I think I’m trying to get every possible medical test devised.

But I’m here plugging away and watching my boys grow up.

Cheers
AT



Glad you’re chucking along albeit having some issues, hope they get resolved quickly! Do let us know the outcomes of the tests.

Have your nodes remained stable throughout chemo all this time too along with the lungs, or did they turn NED?
Sorry for all the questions!


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