CEA nearly double!

[skimom]

I am doing my best to stay calm.. not sure what to do. Just got my CEA test back from this morning and it is up to 32 from the 18 it was 4 weeks ago. The only other times it has risen there have been reasons to expect it (delay in treatment, surgery) I started supplements from ND and IVC about a month ago and antiparasitic drugs last week. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Are they causing this rise? Not that any of you could know for sure but does anyone have any experience, advice or thoughts of why this is happening? I’m on my 3rd round of Folfox (2nd time on it) I did 6 rounds Folfiri before this and switched back to Folfox due to new lung nodules

Thanks and praying for everyone here on your journey back to healthy

~Sara~

[utahgal7]

Hi Sara,

Oh no, I am sorry to hear about the CEA rise. What does your ND/doctor say about the CEA rise? Reach out to beachsunrise and see what her thoughts are about it. Maybe prayingforccr or rp1954 could provide some advice as well. CEA spikes can be caused by so many things. Chemo causes inflammation and that can cause CEA to spike. I have known several patients that had their CEA spike while on FOLFOX and they were not taking any supplements. So don't panic yet. Obviously, I would follow your ND and doctor's advice. However maybe this is an isolated CEA spike. I know it's hard, but try not to worry.

I will pray for you.

Paige

[prayingforccr]

CEA rise can be a result of die off, skimom.

It seems unlikely that your disease would be progressing that much while undergoing folfox.

I didn’t even look at much outside of my wbc and hemoglobin when was doing folfox, so unfortunately I don’t have an analog for comparison purposes.

But on one test, my ca19-9 spiked from 12 to 100 then back to 13 again.

I’m not going to say “don’t worry about it” as that is unhelpful.

The proof will be in your next scans.

Adhere to your treatment scheds

[skimom]

Thank you both for the words of wisdom.. Paige - I will not worry as it does no good ever. Will be positive and wait for scans in 2 weeks. Prayingforccr - Thank you for the thought of it being shedding. I like that! Going to plan as though that is what is happening, stick to the plan and see what happens. Of course all of this is with the backdrop that I stay mentally prepared for a setback because that is how I’m built. Remain positive always with a backup plan or at least the starting process of one.

Thanks again guys - gonna rest easy tonight and keep living my best life!

Blessings to you

~Sara~

[rp1954]

From my perspective, it is hard to tell where you're at because lack of posted blood work - from chemo effectiveness (e.g. combined CEA, CA199, ALP, LDH) and chemo damage (e.g. CBC, 5-8 liver panels) to parts of basic metastatic biology (e.g. CA199 when not an interference, usually inflammations[e.g. hsCRP, ESR] ).

You appear to be on the usual cyclical chemo path of bottoming out CEA and chemo/body exhaustion, CEA climb, loss or reduction of chemo, growth/spread. Short of a miracle new treatment/chemistry, the only way I know to break the cycles is to stop metastatic behavior, restore chemo sensitivity, and remove the worst cancer sites. Easier said than done in the std oncology world, but necessary.

Our approach was:
1. continuous ever more aggressive (immuno) chemo to stop spread and as much growth as possible, while maintaining good CBC and liver panels.
2. good blood work, which is now easier with xeloda based (vs UFT-LV) with ADAPT+++/++++ vs the usual continued degradation of blood panels by repeated std chemo.
3. removal of at least the worst parts ("std" mostly wants one and done curative surgery, this is not necessary with continuous immunochemo). Removal of the worst cancer sites often restores a lot of chemo sensitivity. Getting good partial surgery(s) over the usual "it's futile" objections is a big deal; ablations are more limited but can be useful.

[skimom]

Thank you rp1954!
I don’t have the liver labs you reference so will post the ones I do have.And I only have CEA not a combined one. Are these different tests I should be asking for? CA19-9 hasn’t been a marker for me so they haven’t tested it for a while. Below is what I do have, not sure if it helps shed any light on my situation

I also have a HAI pump so get FUDR every 4 weeks. I had it last cycle so most recent labs are with it. I think it makes a difference in my liver labs. Every other of 2 of them are higher. The hope with the HAI is to shrink liver tumors enough to surgically remove. Praying that it is still an option after the new lung nodules. Surgeon believes they are a result of the surgery to implant the pump so didn’t sound too excited about performing another surgery at least not in the near future. We will see what the scans show in 2 weeks

CBC from yesterday is:
White blood cells 3.64
Red blood cells 3.18 low
Hemoglobin 10.6 low
Hematocrit 31.8 low
MCV 100
MCH 33.3
RDW SD 67.7 High
Platelets 90 Low
Neutrophil 1.90
Lymphocyte .74 low
Monocyte 0.90
EOS .07
BASÓ .02
IG .01

Liver last 5 starting with most recent
ALK 181, 164, 154, 186, 198
AST 65, 60, 77, 45, 56
ALT 115, 123, 150, 72, 134

Thank you so much for looking at it, I admire you, your knowledge and willingness to help others with it is amazing!!

[beach sunrise]

Hi skimom, that is a jump for sure.
What are your targets: VEGF, PGE2, IL-s, CDs, ect?
What are your supplements and doses for them.
Can you list your pathways and supplement list for us?
Another thing is your bloodwork should be expanded and I would def ask for that to get a better oveall picture or underlies targets.

[skimom]

Hi skimom, that is a jump for sure.
What are your targets: VEGF, PGE2, IL-s, CDs, ect?

I’m sorry I don’t know what this means

I also don’t know what you mean by pathways

Here is supplement list:
All from Natura
Botanical Treasures 2 caps 3xday
ImmuCare 2 caps 2xday
Mushroom Synergy 2 caps 3xday
InflamAway 2 caps 3xday
Cell Guardian 3 caps 1xday
Vitamin D+A+K 10,000 IU a day
PhytoCyto 1/2 teaspoon 3xday every other week
Artemis Plus 2 caps 3xday every other week
Iron Synergy 2 caps a day
I also take 12mg ivermectin every 3 days and Albendazole 200mg 4 days on 3 days off
IV Vitamin C 100G once a week (not within 2 days before or after chemo per Onc)

ND said no supplements day before, day of, day after chemo treatment

I will ask for expanded bloodwork, do you have a recommendation of what to ask for?

Thank you so much for all of your help! Truly amazing

[CoolHandLuke8723]

You've made incredible progress in getting your CEA score to drop -from over 5000 initially? What you've been doing seems to have been working well. Only suggestion I would make is to add unflavored IP-6 plus inositol to your daily list and mix 8 grams morning and night into a glass of water with a frother - looks like milk when I drink it. Just got my CEA score yesterday - initial CEA was around 15 and after chemo, IVM and daily IP-6 am down to 5.0 - which is normal range if you are a smoker. As I am not a smoker, am hoping that another chemo treatment plus IP-6 will get me down to 2.5 CEA in two weeks. Best of luck - you have improved your CEA score drastically - maybe try IP-6 powder from Amazon and see if that works for you too?

[skimom]

You've made incredible progress in getting your CEA score to drop -from over 5000 initially? What you've been doing seems to have been working well

Yes this is true! I know it is huge progress but the reason I’m concerned is because when it was heading lower all tumors were shrinking. On my last scan I had 20+ new lung nodules so I’m a bit concerned about them not shrinking since CEA is rising but taking into account what prayingforccr said about shedding cells and hoping for the best when I get scans in 2 weeks.

Thanks for the suggestion on IP-6 I will ask my ND about it on Monday.

[beach sunrise]

MCV: very good
WBC: Astragulus and skull cap
RBCs: b complex, b12 and liverwurst should help
RDW: Could be chemo related
Liver Markers: Siliphos,bladderwrack and hepagenesis might help
Research SIRT6; it is for DNA repair, tumor suppression. Red and black berries (I use all kinds of berry powders without the sugar)
JMO: 12mg IVM every three days is a discussion with ND for more details as to why such a low dose and its half life is only around 12hrs +/-
Inflammation causes cancer and cancer causes inflammation thru vasculation of new vessels. You have some anti-inflammatories in your protocol but maybe have a discussion about adding celebrex as well if it doesn't interfere with the pump as with everything I've mentioned.
There are a few other things I will write later. My foot is asleep and my finger is broken, darn it.

[DarknessEmbraced]

I'm sorry your CEA is rising. *hugs* It can rise for other reasons such as inflammation. I hope that's the case with you. I would talk to your doctor.

[skimom]

MCV: very good
WBC: Astragulus and skull cap
RBCs: b complex, b12 and liverwurst should help
RDW: Could be chemo related
Liver Markers: Siliphos,bladderwrack and hepagenesis might help
Research SIRT6; it is for DNA repair, tumor suppression. Red and black berries (I use all kinds of berry powders without the sugar)
JMO: 12mg IVM every three days is a discussion with ND for more details as to why such a low dose and its half life is only around 12hrs +/-
Inflammation causes cancer and cancer causes inflammation thru vasculation of new vessels. You have some anti-inflammatories in your protocol but maybe have a discussion about adding celebrex as well if it doesn't interfere with the pump as with everything I've mentioned.
There are a few other things I will write later. My foot is asleep and my finger is broken, darn it.

Thanks for the tips! I do eat berries every day but will add a powder to my protein shake as well.

I’ll talk with ND about the dose of IVM and about adding celebrex. I know on the bloodwork he had me do that my inflammation markers were low and I’m not swollen but I’ll still ask. Thanks again!!

Sorry about your finger! What a bummer :/

[Bpaint]

I would guess your CEA jump is from the new lung nodules. But it doesn’t necessarily mean the folfox won’t work to knock them down again. My husband’s cancer also makes a lot of CEA and his has always shot up with any progression, but also each time he changes treatment. Usually it takes 2 months on a new treatment for his CEA to drop back down again.

[beach sunrise]

Yes m'am, I've have a good talk with ND about all your concerns and discuss if anything should be tweeked or not at this point.
Let us know what yall come up with.