Lung mets cough

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Rock_Robster
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Lung mets cough

Postby Rock_Robster » Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:44 am

Hi all,

Unfortunately I seem to have developed a chronic, dry cough which my onc believes is related to my lung mets / nodules and potential involvement with bronchial structures. He’s prescribed codeine linctus which is… meh - better than nothing but doesn’t completely relieve it by far, and doesn’t last long. Honestly oral oxycodone is much better, but obviously a bit heavy. Dextromethorphan is about as good as the codeine. He mentioned steroids would be a last-ditch option, but obviously I wouldn’t want to be on them for long.

Welcome any tips and tricks you may have seen to relieve a cough - either medicinal or otherwise!

Thanks,
Rob
41M Australia
2018 Dx RC
G2 EMVI LVI, 4 liver mets
pT3N1aM1a Stage IVa MSS NRAS G13R
CEA 14>2>32>16>19>30>140>70
11/18 FOLFOX
3/19 Liver resection
5/19 Pelvic IMRT
7/19 ULAR
8/19 Liver met
8/19 FOLFOX, FOLFOXIRI, FOLFIRI
12/19 Liver resection
NED 2 years
11/21 Liver met, PALN, lung nodules
3/22 PVE, lymphadenectomy, liver SBRT
10/22 PALN SBRT
11/22 Liver mets, peri nodule. Xeloda+Bev
4/23 XELIRI+Bev
9/23 ATRIUM trial
12/23 Modified FOLFIRI+Bev

utahgal7
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:04 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby utahgal7 » Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:54 am

Hi Rob,

Have you tried manuka honey? In the past, I found it helpful for cough and heartburn too, surprisingly. Also, ginger tea & lemon tea with manuka honey is good as well.

Good luck!
02/20 Rectal Cancer dx - 4 cm mass; located 9 cm from AV
03/20 CEA 2.7; 0.9; 1.4; 0.9; 0.9; 1.2; 1.0; 0.8; 1.1; 1.0; 1.1; 1.7; 1.8; 1.8
1.9; 2.4; 2.3; 2.8; 2.2, 2.8, 3.2; 3.0; 1.6; 2.0; 1.2
04/20 ST Radiation; 04/20 LAR surgery w/ileostomy; ypT3N1bM0; MSS, KRAS G12A
05/20 CAPEOX; 08/20 Ileostomy reversal
12/20 CT scan; lung nodules (watch and wait);
11/22 lung nodule biopsy positive for RC met;
1/23 VATS right lower lobe wedge resection
FOLFIRI 10 cycles

Rock_Robster
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Rock_Robster » Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:41 am

utahgal7 wrote:Hi Rob,

Have you tried manuka honey? In the past, I found it helpful for cough and heartburn too, surprisingly. Also, ginger tea & lemon tea with manuka honey is good as well.

Good luck!

Good tip thanks - I’ll give it a go! Thankfully being Aussie it isn’t hard to come by Manuka honey here (although I think we pay for it than in the States!).
41M Australia
2018 Dx RC
G2 EMVI LVI, 4 liver mets
pT3N1aM1a Stage IVa MSS NRAS G13R
CEA 14>2>32>16>19>30>140>70
11/18 FOLFOX
3/19 Liver resection
5/19 Pelvic IMRT
7/19 ULAR
8/19 Liver met
8/19 FOLFOX, FOLFOXIRI, FOLFIRI
12/19 Liver resection
NED 2 years
11/21 Liver met, PALN, lung nodules
3/22 PVE, lymphadenectomy, liver SBRT
10/22 PALN SBRT
11/22 Liver mets, peri nodule. Xeloda+Bev
4/23 XELIRI+Bev
9/23 ATRIUM trial
12/23 Modified FOLFIRI+Bev

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 1023
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby beach sunrise » Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:56 am

Bromelain (as long as you are not allergic to pineapple), NAC, Fisetin, Astragulus come to mind off the top of my head. These are soothing adapts. Licorice root is another good one for lungs.
If you would like dosage and schedule let me know.
Thinking of you. Those coughs are the worst and so annoying when having a conversation.
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
5FU/rad 6 wk
IVC 75g 1 1/2 wks before surgery. Continue 2x a week
Surg 1/20 -margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24 post 5.9
FOLFOX
7 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 No more
CEA
7/20 11.1 8.8
8/20 7.8
9/20 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 8.1
11/20 8s
12/20 8s-9s
ADAPT++++ chrono
CEA
10/23/22 26.x
12/23/22 22.x
2023
1/5 17.1
1/20 15.9
3/30 14.9
6/12 13.3
8/1 2.1
Nodule RML SUV 1.3 5mm
Rolles 3 of 4 lung nodules cancer
KRAS
Chem-sens test failed Not enough ca cells to test

rp1954
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby rp1954 » Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:18 pm

Rock_Robster wrote:Unfortunately I seem to have developed a chronic, dry cough which my onc believes is related to my lung mets /
Welcome any tips and tricks you may have seen to relieve a cough - either medicinal or otherwise!

I'm not the one that had colon cancer but...
I suffered various lung, bronchitis and cough problems for a loooonnnnnggggg time. Probably related to infections and inflammation since childhood (a ferritin of 360 at 18 popped up on a military medical); varying vitamin C and D deficiencies in conventional terms, an antibiotic disaster (drug removed from mkt), and some kind of chronic background infection that would be superimposed with conventional ones.

After any cold/flu and likely secondary bout I'd have a fading cough for a month. Eventually I found that lots of oral vitamin C (e.g. 4grams x4/day or more towards bowel tolerance) would stop that last part in a day or two, instead of weeks or a month. At one point I had to have 4x4 vitamin C to keep several problems including the worst of the cough, at bay in the 2000s for some years. Later I would be diagnosed with asthama (very reactive to metacholine) but I didn't wheeze and magnesium probably helped there too (I already had had cardio symptoms relieved by magnesium in the 1980s).

Eventually "lots" of vitamin D brought more benefits, at a whopping 5000iu (turns out I would still be short of basic adequate levels until ca 7000 iu/day). I had previously spent a winter crawling from 1000 iu to 2000 iu to avoid that vitamin D toxicity onset that "std medicine" always brayed about. Then I had a trip with lots driving in southern US during a sunny August - many problems.just.disappeared ... the light bulb comes on. (melatonin from infrared would now be included with the sun's vitamin D benefit)

Finally, in April 2021 when we finally got ivermectin for "other reasons", my chronic residual cough, "COPD" just disappeared.

Other people use megavitamin C, oral and IV, to reduce or stop their steriods. One lady in our IV vitamin C circles used IV vitamin C and then other natural anti-inflammatories to wean herself off scary amounts (to me) of predinisone for chronic inflammation with pseudotumor cerebri.

My wife ran on 25,000-45,000 iu vit D3/day for some years, which presumably has some anti-inflammatory action too.
With my wife's immunochemo and particular CC cell line(s), these approaches (vit C, D3, K2) were not only compatible but additive on treating the cancer itself.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper chemo to almost nothing mid 2018, IV C-->2021. Now supplements

Pagola44
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:57 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Pagola44 » Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:02 pm

I've developed a cough as well lately I wonder if I have lung mets
29m Male.
DX: CC, Right Hepatic Flexure, 4cm, T3, G2, M0
Stage III3B , Positive lymph nodes: (2/20)
Baseline CEA value: 1.98
LVI and PNI: absent
Surgical margins: clear
No lynch Syndrome or MSI
Primary surgery type: Laparascopic

Markdale
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:45 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Markdale » Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:14 pm

Hey rob, salbutamol (ventolin or asmol) could dilate the bronchioles a bit and give some relief. You don’t need a prescription for it here. I use it sometimes when I have a cough but I also get asthma.
Have you had a lung infection recently? I’m sure you and your doc would have thought about it but I’ve seen a few people have a dry cough for a few weeks after Covid.
09/20:Diagnosed after colonoscopy for bleeding.
MRI and ct scan confirmed tumor at rectosigmoid junction aswell as lung nodules in RLL (1X1.2cm) and RUL (3X.5cm)
10/20: LAR tumour t3n2m1 4/24 lymph nodes.
11/20: pet scan confirmed Mets
11/20: folfoxiri - 10/6/21. 12 rounds in total
1/1/21 thoracotomy 1 met removed
2/2022 sabr to 2 lung nodule
09/22 PET scan progression of sabr’d nodules
10/22 phase 1 trial bispecific antibody
9/23 added pd1 blocker
12/23 bilateral VATS all visible (7) lesions removed

CoolHandLuke8723
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:10 am
Facebook Username: CoolHandLukeNone

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby CoolHandLuke8723 » Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:52 am

N Acetyl Cistine (NAC) for about $6 a bottle from Walmart worked for my cough. Took a few weeks before the cough was gone. Your mileage may vary. Don't take if you are using IP6 and inositol - it deactivates the cancer fighting properties of IP6.

Rock_Robster
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Rock_Robster » Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:04 am

Thanks everyone for all the creative advice. I’m working through these and have placed an iHerb order and will be restarting IVC next week.
41M Australia
2018 Dx RC
G2 EMVI LVI, 4 liver mets
pT3N1aM1a Stage IVa MSS NRAS G13R
CEA 14>2>32>16>19>30>140>70
11/18 FOLFOX
3/19 Liver resection
5/19 Pelvic IMRT
7/19 ULAR
8/19 Liver met
8/19 FOLFOX, FOLFOXIRI, FOLFIRI
12/19 Liver resection
NED 2 years
11/21 Liver met, PALN, lung nodules
3/22 PVE, lymphadenectomy, liver SBRT
10/22 PALN SBRT
11/22 Liver mets, peri nodule. Xeloda+Bev
4/23 XELIRI+Bev
9/23 ATRIUM trial
12/23 Modified FOLFIRI+Bev

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 1023
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby beach sunrise » Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:18 am

R_R, sounds like you are on it, taking care of business! C is so good....
CoolHandLuke, I didn't know about the conflict between IP6 and NAC. Can you post the study paper where you found this info?
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
5FU/rad 6 wk
IVC 75g 1 1/2 wks before surgery. Continue 2x a week
Surg 1/20 -margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24 post 5.9
FOLFOX
7 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 No more
CEA
7/20 11.1 8.8
8/20 7.8
9/20 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 8.1
11/20 8s
12/20 8s-9s
ADAPT++++ chrono
CEA
10/23/22 26.x
12/23/22 22.x
2023
1/5 17.1
1/20 15.9
3/30 14.9
6/12 13.3
8/1 2.1
Nodule RML SUV 1.3 5mm
Rolles 3 of 4 lung nodules cancer
KRAS
Chem-sens test failed Not enough ca cells to test

CoolHandLuke8723
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:10 am
Facebook Username: CoolHandLukeNone

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby CoolHandLuke8723 » Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:53 pm

I can't find the original medical article but this medical excerpt explains NACs effect on ROS:
"Excessive ROS can react with biomolecules including DNA, which is considered to be a possible cause for the increase in oncogenic mutations and the development of cancer [60]. This notion led to the expectation that dietary antioxidants might effectively prevent cancer development and has been a theoretical basis and explanation for the cancer-preventive effects of various antioxidant-rich plant foods observed in epidemiological studies. However, cancer-promoting effects have also been observed for antioxidants in some preclinical studies [10,11]. For example, supplementation with NAC or vitamin E after the development of cancer was found to increase cancer progression and reduce survival in mouse models of both BRAF- and KRAS-induced lung cancer [10]. Similarly, the oral administration of NAC after small nevi formation was shown to increase lymph node metastases without affecting the number and size of the primary tumors in a transgenic mouse model of melanoma [11]. These cancer-promoting effects of dietary antioxidants have resulted in a change in the perspective on the role of antioxidants in cancer. While antioxidants do prevent ROS-mediated cellular damage, they also protect cancer cells from ROS-mediated death. Therefore, antioxidants can effectively prevent cancer initiation, but can promote the growth of established cancers' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911701/

Essentially, IP6 and Inositol works by depleting iron from tumors and stops the cancer from feeding on Iron by removing it from everything but hemoglobin - NAC does the opposite - it neutralizes IP6. So the scientists experimenting with IP6 to fight cancer discovered they could inactivate IP6 and inositol by supplying NAC to the test animals. Since I want to deplete the iron from cancer, I stopped taking NAC after my cough disappeared. I've been taking IP6 and Inositol at 8 grams a night and 8 grams a morning for over a month and my CEA score has dropped by half from 15.7 to 8 and I've lost over 20 lbs. I'll take another CEA test in two weeks and see if the progress continues. IP6 seems to also prevent nausea and diarrhea when taking FOLFOX and other side effects, so for me it is worth it.

utahgal7
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:04 pm

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby utahgal7 » Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:10 am

Rob,

How is your cough? Did you try manuka honey or any of the supplements mentioned? Hope your cough has gotten better!


Paige
02/20 Rectal Cancer dx - 4 cm mass; located 9 cm from AV
03/20 CEA 2.7; 0.9; 1.4; 0.9; 0.9; 1.2; 1.0; 0.8; 1.1; 1.0; 1.1; 1.7; 1.8; 1.8
1.9; 2.4; 2.3; 2.8; 2.2, 2.8, 3.2; 3.0; 1.6; 2.0; 1.2
04/20 ST Radiation; 04/20 LAR surgery w/ileostomy; ypT3N1bM0; MSS, KRAS G12A
05/20 CAPEOX; 08/20 Ileostomy reversal
12/20 CT scan; lung nodules (watch and wait);
11/22 lung nodule biopsy positive for RC met;
1/23 VATS right lower lobe wedge resection
FOLFIRI 10 cycles

Rock_Robster
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Rock_Robster » Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:29 am

utahgal7 wrote:Rob,

How is your cough? Did you try manuka honey or any of the supplements mentioned? Hope your cough has gotten better!


Paige

Hi Utahgal,

It’s definitely improving! Thanks for checking in. I still have coughing fits from time to time, but it’s nowhere near as constant as before. The supps only arrived fairly recently unfortunately (iHerb is very slow to Australia) so I’m not sure how much credit I can give them. I’ve definitely been doing the honey though - it’s also great as a drink with lemon and hot water (which I never thought would do anything, but here we are!).
41M Australia
2018 Dx RC
G2 EMVI LVI, 4 liver mets
pT3N1aM1a Stage IVa MSS NRAS G13R
CEA 14>2>32>16>19>30>140>70
11/18 FOLFOX
3/19 Liver resection
5/19 Pelvic IMRT
7/19 ULAR
8/19 Liver met
8/19 FOLFOX, FOLFOXIRI, FOLFIRI
12/19 Liver resection
NED 2 years
11/21 Liver met, PALN, lung nodules
3/22 PVE, lymphadenectomy, liver SBRT
10/22 PALN SBRT
11/22 Liver mets, peri nodule. Xeloda+Bev
4/23 XELIRI+Bev
9/23 ATRIUM trial
12/23 Modified FOLFIRI+Bev

CoolHandLuke8723
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:10 am
Facebook Username: CoolHandLukeNone

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby CoolHandLuke8723 » Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:16 pm

Did you take the covid vaccine? Did your cough start afterwards? From what I've read, those who have taken the covid vaccines and boosters should take a D-Dimer test for micro coagulations in the blood, which clogs the arteries.

Rock_Robster
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:27 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Lung mets cough

Postby Rock_Robster » Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:55 am

CoolHandLuke8723 wrote:Did you take the covid vaccine? Did your cough start afterwards? From what I've read, those who have taken the covid vaccines and boosters should take a D-Dimer test for micro coagulations in the blood, which clogs the arteries.

Sorry for the delay on this one, I have had Covid vaccines but nothing within 6 months of the onset of the cough.
41M Australia
2018 Dx RC
G2 EMVI LVI, 4 liver mets
pT3N1aM1a Stage IVa MSS NRAS G13R
CEA 14>2>32>16>19>30>140>70
11/18 FOLFOX
3/19 Liver resection
5/19 Pelvic IMRT
7/19 ULAR
8/19 Liver met
8/19 FOLFOX, FOLFOXIRI, FOLFIRI
12/19 Liver resection
NED 2 years
11/21 Liver met, PALN, lung nodules
3/22 PVE, lymphadenectomy, liver SBRT
10/22 PALN SBRT
11/22 Liver mets, peri nodule. Xeloda+Bev
4/23 XELIRI+Bev
9/23 ATRIUM trial
12/23 Modified FOLFIRI+Bev


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