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Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:37 pm
by weisssoccermom
I know that things have changed since I was diagnosed and underwent my treatment. Right now, I have a friend who was recently diagnosed with rectal cancer. His protocol includes 4 rounds of XELOX prior to radiation and then (I assume) 28 - 30 days of radiation. When I was in treatment, they didn't do chemo first...we started with radiation. So obviously protocols have changed somewhat. My question for those who underwent radiation for rectal cancer, what type of chemo did you have during your radiation? I was on Xeloda (back then there was no generic capecitabine) but at a lower dose than the dosage without radiation. Did you have Xeloda/Capecitabine during radiation at the same dosage before or after (surgery). How many of you also had OXI during radiation? He's asking me all sorts of questions and while much has remained the same....a lot of the treatment protocol has been tweaked/modified. He's really having a hard time on his CAPEOX (XELOX) protocol right now and I'm pretty certain he will have radiation WITH the Xeloda(Capecitabine) but I don't know about the oxi.

Please share your experiences so I can give him a better idea of what to expect. IF you had OXI during radiation, how often was that? When I was in treatment, it (IMO the correct decision) was thought that radiation/Xeloda was tough enough....not warranted to add the OXI. Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Jaynee

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:58 pm
by roadrunner
Mine was just like yours. Never heard of Oxaliplatin during radiation.

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:30 pm
by MadMed
I had radiation last October, it was the regular Xeloda/Capecitabine week days with radiation. 28 days. That being said, i did have 4 months of chemo before radiation (TNT) and that did include oxi..ugh!
If your friend is getting XELOX during rad, that's a really old protocol.I think they used to do that back in the early 2000s.

I can't imagine getting oxi twice, during chemo and the CRT!

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:34 am
by jsbsf
DH was diagnosed with stage 4 low rectal 8/2019. He was treated with 12 rounds of FOLFOX from 9/2019 to 6/2020, the last 3 had slightly reduced oxi. He has no permanent side effects. They postponed one for a week during covid.

His rectal area was treated with 5 days of high dose ERBT 500 cGy/ day for a total 2500 cGy. The logic was that his immune system could handle it as he’d held up very well through chemo. The final chemo infusion (graduation) was 6/2/2020 and the radiation was at the end of July 2020.

He has been NED (conservatively) since 10/2020. He’s currently having that verified with an ultrasound and biopsies, and we’ll have more conclusive evidence next week.

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:29 pm
by claudine
My husband was supposed to get 5 weeks of EBRT radiation with Xeloda concurrently, but since the MRI showed a T1/2 tumor instead of the expected T3, neoadjuvant treatment was cancelled. He's really suffered from oxaliplatin in the past (has permanent neuropathy from it) and developed tumors while on it, so that would not have been part of the treatment.

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:01 pm
by beach sunrise
I had 31 rad treatments along with 5FU pump.
Someone I know up in a North West state had 30 rad treatments. Half way thru they added 4 FOLFOX treatments, then surgery. Adjuvent chemo was 4 FOLFOX infusions with the 5FU pump after each infusion for 42 hrs.

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:53 pm
by CRguy
Hey Jaynee
just replied to your PM and have been "on the road" or would have been back here sooner too ... :oops:

JME from 2007 :
- 6 weeks neo-adjuvant chemoradiation with Xeloda ( 3600 mg/day ) oxaliplatin not offered
- surgery
- higher dose Xeloda adjuvant chemo ( 5000 mg/day ), oxaliplatin offered BUTT not taken

Get him to join the BEST forum in the world !!!!

Cheers all
CRguy

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:25 am
by Peregrine
Given the description of your friend's current regimen, it seems to me that he is being put on the new TNT (Total Neoadjuvant Therapy) regimen, whereby the first segment of TNT is chemotherapy with oxaliplatin, the second segment is chemo/radiation with reduced-dose capecitabine without oxaliplatin (i.e., capecitabine by itself as a low-dose radiation-sensitizer). This is then followed finally by surgery. According to current NCCN Rectal Guidelines, the TNT approach is highly recommended because it maximizes the chances of zapping any micro-metastases in the pelvic region before any surgery is attempted.

This option is shown as "Scenario 1-1-0" in the rectal cancer overview quoted below. This scenario is now gaining acceptance as the preferred way to approach rectal cancer treatment. There is no post-surgery adjuvant therapy under this regimen. All therapy is done before surgery. It wasn't like that 10 or 15 years ago when most of the rectal cancer patients had some sort of adjuvant therapy after surgery.

I would suggest that your friend check with his oncologist to verify what regimen he is actually on, and to verify the sequence of treatments within the regimen.

    Green Tea wrote:

    Code: Select all

    DISCLAIMER: This post concerns only M-Stage=MØ patients, that is, Stage I, Stage II, or Stage III rectal cancer patients who have no evidence of remote metastasis to the liver, lungs, peritoneum or other remote sites.

    CancerBum21 wrote:...I just feel like the process is moving so slowly! I'm try to be as proactive as I can, but the process just seems so disorganized. Is it common for it to take over a month to go from initial diagnosis to staging and treatment? It just seems like this process is taking forever. I want to take some action or at least know how bad it is...

    Welcome to the Club!

    I'm sorry to hear that things are moving so slowly. Sometimes it just takes a long time for them to get all of the relevant data together.

    First of all, the treatment for rectal cancer is somewhat different from the treatment for colon cancer because rectal cancer (nonmetastatic) usually involves three phases, not just two.

    The three phases are:
    1. Pre-surgery (also called "neoadjuvant therapy")
    2. Surgery
    3. Post-surgery (also called "adjuvant therapy")

    The difference is that for rectal cancer it is very important to reduce the size of the tumor before surgery if at all possible. Then after surgery has taken place it may be advisable to invoke one or more more treatment protocols to "mop up" any stray tumor cells or micro-metastases that may still be present.

    So, when a patient is diagnosed with rectal cancer, at least two doctors must be assigned -- a Colorectal Surgeon and a Medical Oncologist.  But there is also the possibility that a third doctor may need to be on the team -- a Radiation Oncologist -- in case it is decided that pelvic radiation is advisable either before or after surgery.  Thus, a rectal cancer treatment plan requires that all three of the above phases be addressed up front in the planning phase before the doctors can start any kind of treatment, because the doctors need to look at the big picture to assess the best way to guarantee overall treatment success while maintaining good quality of life.

    Before a treatment plan can be launched, the team must agree specifically on what (if anything) should be done in each of the three phases above. (It should be mentioned here that in some cases it is not necessary to have all three phases.  For example, a Stage I diagnosis may require only surgery and nothing more.)

    The interventions applied in the three phases above must be tailored to the specific rectal cancer diagnosis at hand, which means that the very first part of the planning sequence is to determine a detailed diagnosis as completely as possible and as early as possible. This means that a number of diagnostic tests (e.g., CT scans,  x-rays, MRIs, ultrasounds, lab tests, genetic tests, etc.) will need to be done. This may take some time, especially if the diagnosis turns out to be a difficult, complex one.

    The NCCN gives a list of about a dozen recommended items to address when finalizing a rectal cancer diagnosis. In addition, the College of American Pathologists has a list of required pathology data elements that must be captured for a complete colorectal cancer diagnosis. Altogether there are about a dozen or a dozen and a half important data items that must be captured and incorporated in the initial diagnosis.

    Eight of the most important data elements to be captured initially are:

    1.  T-stage of primary mass:   The initial T-stage of the tumor before any intervention, i.e., T1, T2, T3, T4a, or T4b  -- the degree to which the tumor has grown into or through the rectum wall.

    2. N-stage: The initial N-stage of the regional (mesorectal) lymph nodes. i.e., N0, N1a, N1b, N1c, N2a, or N2b  according to  the number of suspicious local lymph nodes appearing on the scans.

    3.Orientation of tumor within the rectum: Dorsal-wall/ventral-wall/left-wall/right-wall.

    4. Distance between the lower aspect of the tumor and the ano-rectal ring (sphincter muscle). Degree of sphincter involvement.

    5. Tumor length (mm)

    6. Radial Margin -  Amounted of cancer-free space between the tumor and other important organs/structures. The smallest distance (mm) between the tumor and the Mesorectal Fascia (MRF)

    7. MSI or dMMR status - Whether the tumor is Microsatellite-High (MSI-H), or Microsatellite-Stable (MSS)

    8. Baseline CEA - Initial CEA level prior to any treatment intervention.

    Armed with good data in the critical areas of the diagnosis, the doctors can then proceed, in a coordinated way, to plan their respective interventions.

    For most (but not all) cases, it is assumed that surgery will need to be performed at some point in time.  Given the data received from the initial diagnosis, the surgeon will determine the various approaches that could be taken to remove the tumor, and which approach would be the best one to use in this case.

    For rectal cancer, there are a number of surgical possibilities, including AR (anterior resection) LAR (low anterior resection), ULAR (ultra low anterior resection), APR (abdomino-perineal resection), PE (pelvic extenteration), TE (trans-anal excision), TME (total mesorectal excision) TAMIS (trans anal minimally invasive surgery), TEM  (trans-anal endoscopic microsurgery), ESD (endoscopic submucosal dissection), TASER (trans anal submucosal endoscopic resection). The surgeon must determine the best approach to take given the constraints and circumstances.  In addition, the surgeon must assess whether a temporary ileostomy or a permanent colostomy will be required. And in some cases the surgeon may recommend an additional J-pouch surgery

    The type of surgery envisioned may then dictate what kind of pre-surgery treatment would be required, such as TNT (total neoadjuvant therapy), LCCRT (long course chemo-radiation therapy), SCRT (short course radiation therapy), NCT (neoadjuvant chemotherapy) --  or possibly no pre-surgery treatment at all. If radiation is deemed necessary then a Radiation Oncologist must be added to the team.

    For the post-surgery phase -- which is normally a phase of fixed length (usually from 4 to 8 months) -- there are about half a dozen options commonly available, such as FOLFOX, XELOX(CAPOX), 5FU/Leucovorin, FOLFIRI, FOLFIRINOX,  Xeloda monotherapy, or LCCRT (long course chemo/radiation therapy). These chemo options are standard, traditional cytotoxic chemo regimens. Note: For M0-staged patients, targeted therapies and immunotherapies are not on the NCCN recommended list; those therapies are reserved for Stage IV patients.

    After the team has determined the best overall treatment plan, then the patient will be informed about the specific interventions that are planned (if any) for each of the three phases.

    Since there are 3 possible phases and each of the three phases could theoretically have or not have a treatment intervention, there will be 8 possible scenarios. 

    The most common of these scenarios are the following:

    Scenario 1-1-1 : neoadjuvant therapy > surgery > adjuvant ("mop-up") therapy
    Scenario 1-1-0 : TNT > surgery > (post-surgery observation only)
    Scenario 1-0-0 :  Habr-Gama protocol to avoid surgery *** > (post treatment Wait & Watch)
    Scenario 0-1-1 :  Emergency surgery > adjuvant ("mop-up") therapy
    Scenario 0-1-0 :  Surgery only (for Stage 1 and some Stage 2A patients)

    *** Scenario 1-0-0 is when it is desired to eliminate surgery itself by imposing a powerful neoadjuvant chemotherapy regimen up-front designed to achieve complete clinical response ( cCR ) by obliterating the tumor and nearby lymph nodes. This approach is called the Habr-Gama protocol for avoiding surgery, otherwise known as Watch and Wait (W&W)

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:46 pm
by Rock_Robster
Peregrine wrote:Given the description of your friend's current regimen, it seems to me that he is being put on the new TNT (Total Neoadjuvant Therapy) regimen, whereby the first segment of TNT is chemotherapy with oxaliplatin, the second segment is chemo/radiation with reduced-dose capecitabine without oxaliplatin (i.e., capecitabine by itself as a low-dose radiation-sensitizer). This is then followed finally by surgery.


This (TNT) is exactly what I did too and it worked well (complete metabolic response). They drop the oxaliplatin and reduce the capecitabine dose during radiation, due to cumulative toxicity risk. I have never known anyone to do FOLFOX/FOLFIRI during radiation. There are some experimental ‘sandwich’ protocols being used, but this is very theoretical. Some centres may also offer 2 cycles of FOLFOX during the 8-10 week pre-surgery period after long-course radiation (mine did but for some reason I didn’t do it; bizarrely I can’t remember why).

Good luck,
Rob

Re: Question for those who have undergone radiation for rectal cancer

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:16 am
by Rob in PA
I did neoadjuvant Xelox (ugh) with radiation prior to surgery. I had good response and they were able to cut it out without much trouble due to it having shrunk up a good bit. The thing i thought was weird is that the chemo was a pill regimen at home.

Best of luck to your friend,

Rob in PA