Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

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TiredandTroubled
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:11 am

Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby TiredandTroubled » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:15 pm

Hi,

I've been positing a lot on this forum, and til now did not know my staging. I just found out today I am 3B, T3N2aM0. I know it's not the worst but it's also not the best. It seems like there's a 65% chance I'll be disease free in five years. This really sucks. I know others have it worse but I was hoping for a bit better odds. I feel numb, angry, scared, and sad.

Can anyone please give me some hope or some tips on how to make it through this?
29F DX 7/19
CC Sigmoid Colon
Adenocarcinoma
5.2 cm x 2.4 cm
G2
T3N2aM0
Stage III
5/15 positive LN
Baseline CEA: 16
LVI, PNI present
Clear margins
MSS
Sigmoid Colectomy

Rikimaroo
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:48 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby Rikimaroo » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:21 pm

Hi there - I think mine was very similar to your. stage III, T3, N1, was mine. Do everything your doctor says. get the surgery if you have too. You are very curable. I had 3 other people with similar diagnosis who did everything the doctor said and is clear today still no cancer. I see you did a colectomy, that is a great start. Maybe some chemo if they recommend. I think you will be fine. All you can hope for is that is never comes back. After 5 years if nothing ever happens, you are considered cancer free.
RC T3N1M0 12/16
MSS - NRAS Mutation
Chemo Rad, CCR - W&W 5/2017
Recurrence 11/2017
CT Scan 11/2017 Liver Met 5.5cm Stable, Stage IV
LAR/Liver Resect 4/2018
Reversal 10/18
CEA highest 500, lowest .8 throughout process, waiting for latest
Recurrence left vesical/pelvic sidewall - 10/7/2019 resect perm bag,
CEA rise Feb/May 3.7, 8.8, 30, Recurrence in Pelvic
CEA 40 right now, but was 57, so folfiri to beat it back down.
Lots of chemo for the past 4 years.

roadrunner
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:46 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby roadrunner » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:17 pm

It’s certainly understandable that you are upset, though the line between 3/4 is in my view is the really big divide. And there are many good stories even in the 4s. That said, the 65% DFS number is IMO basically worthless. You need to concentrate on your individual circumstances. Scans, treatment approach, surgery, genetics/biology, doctors, blood counts and markers, general health/fitness, level of knowledge/attentiveness, lifestyle/nutrition, age—all of those things, and many other factors, will move that % all over the place. Not to mention the fact that that number comes from patients in the past, and things do improve over time, sometimes materially. You are an experiment of one (as somebody on here said in a signature I think). I know it’s a different worldview, and one you never wanted, but it can still be a very good one. My advice is to do everything you can to increase that 65%.

And finally—please don’t take this the wrong way, I mean it as lighthearted—it may help to reflect on the fact that in end we’re all actually at 0% OS : ) The key I think is to make the most and best of what we have. Good luck!
7/19: RC: Staged IIIA, T2N1M0
approx 4.25 cm, low/mid rectum, mod. well diff.; lung micronodule
8/19-10/19 4 rds.FOLFOX neoadjuvant, 3 w/Oxiplatin (reduced 70-75%)
neoadjuvant chemorad 11/19
4 rounds FOLFOX July-August 2020
ncCR 10/20; biopsies neg
TAE 11/20, tumor cells removed
Chest CT 3/30/21 growth in 2 nodules (3 and 5mm)
VATS 12/8/21 sub-pleural met 7mm.
SBRT nodule 1/22
6/20/22 TAE rectal polyp benign)
NED from 3/22 - 3/23
4 cycles FOLFIRI
LUL VATS lobectomy for radio resistant met 7/7/23

aquarian_asian
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:07 am

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby aquarian_asian » Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:19 pm

I am almost same as yours (i can even copy your signature for mine)

The key is being positive. I was down initially, but I am confident that I can fight against this

You will have some chemo after sometime, (mine is 4 cycles of CAPOX, 3 cycles are done) .

Focus on what you eat (lot nutrient foods, plant based (cauliflower, cabbage, broccoli like ) & fruits like nuts, berries, Nuts etc) and some supplements like Vit D, Omega (u can get it from fish too) , etc

Be bold and beautiful. You can go through this

Cheers
Feb 2021 - Dx Stage3B - rectal cancer (Age is 48, Male)
April 2021 - Radiation - for a week (5 mins x 5 days)
May 2021 - LAR surgery
Pathology: G2, LN+ PVI+, Lymph Nodes 5 out of 22
Temporary Ileostomy
Jun-Aug 2021 - Chemo 4 cycles 3 months (CAPOX)
Feb 2022 - Ileostomy reversal

NorseMan
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:55 pm
Facebook Username: Norse Man

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby NorseMan » Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:21 pm

Hey I am real close to your stats but about 9 months from the sigmoid colectomy and 5 months from 5 rounds of adjutant chemo (Capox). Just got scanned and it was clear, if that’s any hope but like you said it’s 50/50 roughly it recurs in 5 years, with 80% chance of that on first 2 years. I would get on the god-awful chemo train as soon as you can after surgery. Oxilaplatin is a lot worse in cold weather, and that’s saying something.
Male, 55 @ DX
11/5/20: Colonoscopy, find tumor
11/6/20 CT Scan, no spread seen
11/16/20 CEA 1.2
11/19/20 Left Side Colectomy (4-5" ? removed)
Stage 3B (TNM: pT3, pN1b, cM0), 3 of 19 lymph nodes invaded. Poorly differentiated, 3 tumor deposits, perineural tracking
12/01/20 CEA 1.3
12/01/20 Started CAPOX
03/16/21 Quit Capox at 5 of 8 rounds
05/10/21 CEA 1.6
07/26/21 CEA 1.6
07/26/21 CT Scan, no metastic disease seen, small hepatic hypodensity observed

henny-crc
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby henny-crc » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:07 am

Hello. My pathology was actually really similiar with yours, 5 nodes with positive LVI and PNI, but with a tiny 1cm T1 tumor.
Now, 8 cycles of CAPOX or 12 cycles of FOLFOX await you. I chose CAPOX, and i think it is a lot easier to swallow then its counterpart, with bigger intervals between cycles and a lot less hospital stay. Xeloda had litttle to no side effects for me, but its different for everyone i guess. But oxaliplatin was brutal, especially in the last 2 cycles, it had me down for days, and i still have neuropathy from it now.
Im 1 year clear for now, next scans in november, fingers crossed. Wishing you, myself and everyone going through this on this forum to remain cancer free for life.
Dx 06/20
23 yo
Stage 3A
T1N2a

stu
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby stu » Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:30 am

You are a statistic of one , and there in lies the Hope !
Hold onto it . Someone always says to me when I mention stats , they are good for health economists to help plan future health care needs , not so good for indicating how you will respond as an individual!

Remember with bowel cancer the more distance you put between the operation the recurrence levels drop right off .
Take care ,
Stu
supporter to my mum who lives a great life despite a difficult diagnosis
stage4 2009 significant spread to liver
2010 colon /liver resection
chemo following recurrence
73% of liver removed
enjoying life treatment free
2016 lung resection
Oct 2017 nice clear scan . Two lung nodules disappeared
Oct 2018. Another clear scan .

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 1669
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby horizon » Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:27 am

I was stage 3 also ten years ago. All looking at statistics did was upset me with no benefit. I took the attitude that the statistics were more for the people I saw in the waiting room of my doctor's office that looked like my grandparents and not for myself. We'll support you through this!
I'm just a dude who still can't believe he had a resection and went through chemo (currently 13 years NED). Is this real life?

NoVA21
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:15 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby NoVA21 » Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:33 pm

Hello TiredAndTroubled,

Do not be discouraged.
I was first diagnosed with stage 3B as well. I had a colon resection and then prescribed 12 rounds of FOLFOX. I was not able to complete it. I only did 11 because of the neuropathy.

Six months after treatment, I was diagnosed with stage 4 because I had 2 nodules, each on each lung. Had double lung resection.

This past April I celebrated my 5 years.

Medicine has come far since that statistic was gathered. At that stage, you will most likely need chemo treatment. Surround yourself with family and friends. I found being around people talking about every day things helped me forget how I was feeling while in treatment.

God bless.
Dx Jan 2015
Colon Resection Feb 2015 stage 3B
Folfox started Mar 2015
Could only finish 11 out of 12 rounds
Mar 2016 dx mets on both lungs - officially stage 4
Apr 2016 double lung resection
By the grace of God, am still clear today.

User avatar
O Stoma Mia
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:29 am
Location: On vacation. Off-line for now.

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby O Stoma Mia » Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:54 am

TiredandTroubled wrote:... Can anyone please give me some hope or some tips on how to make it through this?
    O Stoma Mia wrote:...In the health care context, the team approach is important, and I think that there are some places, like MSKCC, that try to use this approach.

    The team approach is also important in a wider sense, however, to include other areas of life. In his book Life Over Cancer, Dr. Keith I. Block discusses the issue of setting up a "Team" to provide support to the cancer patient. In his book, he lists 5 areas of support that need to be covered:

    "The members of your A-team must be capable of providing you with five basic forms of support
    • Emotional support
    • Practical support
    • Informational support
    • Coaching support
    • Decision-making support
    You therefore need to pick people whose personalities and coping styles make them well-equipped for a particular role..."

    In Chapter 2 of the book, the author goes on to explain what is needed in each of these five areas.

Tueffel
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 12:53 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby Tueffel » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:22 pm

Dont be discouraged! Yes of course you are scared. I was also scared when I read statistics of survival for my dads cancer.
But statistics dont say anything about you! Besides the cancer you are a healthy young woman with no diseases that will influence your prognosis. My dad only has MS, otherwise he is healthy, so the oncologist can do the maximum tolerated dose of the drugs. I know someone who was 77 when diagnosed and treated, he is 88 now. But I also had a patient when nothing was possible to do. But you are not that person. You are young (which is terrible, we are the same age more or less, and xou should not handle this disease that young), but the important organs like kidney and liver are not damaged due to age etc. So you will be able to handle it, go through it and get cured!
If you can, try to inform yourself what you can additionally do like eat healthy or meditation to have feel better and be less stressed.
Papa
Has MS, 18/19 w Alemtuzumab
01/20 dx adeno
pT3, pN1c (0/13; deposits), pM1 liver
Pn1, R0, G2
KRAS G12V
Treated: Germany
4x folfox
05-06/20 liver + colon surgery
08-11/2020 folfox, 60% oxaliplatin
02/21 2nd liver surgery
04/21 recurrence
2 weeks: 50% growth
Since 05/21 5x TACE, 7x Folfiri + bev
08/21 still growth, ileus surgery and peritoneal mets,
10/21 Lonsurf Cyramza, failed
Papa died 26th November 2021

User avatar
O Stoma Mia
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:29 am
Location: On vacation. Off-line for now.

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby O Stoma Mia » Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:48 am

TiredandTroubled wrote:... Can anyone please give me some ... tips on how to make it through this?

The best tip I can think of right now is for you to read the past posts of some of the Stage III-B patients here who made it to complete remission by the 5-year follow-up milestone.

One such Stage III-B is member lpas, who did an enormous amount of research at the very beginning and took action on the basis of what she discovered from reliable sources. She has now posted more than 1,000 posts, and has been in remission since last year. Another Stage III-B member of interest is Jannine.

One resource worth ckecking out is this Life Extension article on chemotherapy. It gives documented information on a variety of alternative medications and nutrients that could be useful for complementing standard chemo regimens to make them more effective, and for reducing various toxic side effects of standard chemo regimens.
https://www.lifeextension.com/Protocols/Cancer/Chemotherapy/Page-01

Another resource is member rp1954, who has posted many messages about various supplementary tests and treatment add-ons that might be of help. He just recently posted this message,
https://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=509905#p509905
but he has many, many more posts in his message archive that could be of help to Stage III-B patients who take the time to read his past posts on extra biomarker tests and supplementary treatment options, for example:
https://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54838p=435438#p435438

Member rp1954 has written about these and other issues many times. Here are some examples of his posts on the value of having good, comprehensive baseline data to work with during the 5-year surveillance period:
http://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55285&p=438646#p438646

http://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52840&p=416346#p416346

http://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50038&p=380871#p380871

rp1954 Plan B
https://coloncancersupport.colonclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65791&p=510001#p510001
.
======
Also, there are these resources from the MSKCC Integrative Medicine Center that might be worth considering:

Bendheim Integrative Medicine Center
1429 First Avenue New York NY 10021

https://www.mskcc.org/locations/directory/bendheim-integrative-medicine
From boosting your overall sense of well-being to managing your pain, we offer specialized advice and programs that can help you:
  • better handle side effects from chemotherapy and radiation minimize anxiety, depression, and stress
  • understand your herb, vitamin, and other dietary supplement options
  • prevent and treat lymphedema control fatigue, europathy, dry mouth, hot flashes, and other symptoms
  • improve muscle strength, balance, and endurance reduce pain and muscle tension
  • tap into and experience the power of controlling your breath
Reference: https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagnosis-treatment/symptom-management/integrative-medicine

Integrative Medicine - MSKCC
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagnosis-treatment/symptom-management/integrative-medicine

Personal Care Plan - MSKCC
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagnosis-treatment/symptom-management/integrative-medicine/expertise
.
Herbal medicine for depression and anxiety: A systematic review with assessment of potential psycho-oncologic relevance
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29464801/

Long-term chamomile (Matricaria chamomilla L.) treatment for generalized anxiety disorder: A randomized clinical trial
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27912875/

====
ADDENDUM - August 17

Now, 3 weeks have passed since your surgery took place. You have already received the pathology report from your surgery, but have you had your CEA tested since surgery? This is important.

Normally, a post-surgery CEA is taken a few weeks after surgery inflammation has subsided. This measurement is needed to see if CEA has returned to normal. CEA should be in the normal range by now, assuming that all visible cancer was successfully removed by your colectomy surgery. If CEA has not returned to normal by now, then it means either (a) some residual cancer still remains in the body, or (b) some benign condition is triggering an elevated CEA, or (c) something else. Whatever the reason, a persistent elevated CEA would need to be checked out. This might have implications for the type of 1st-line chemotherapy chosen.

Normally, doctors like to start adjuvant chemotherapy within 6 weeks of the primary surgery, so time is of the essence right now. Only a short time remains to take care of all the things that need to be done before the start of chemotherapy.
Last edited by O Stoma Mia on Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

WelshIan
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:52 pm

Re: Finally Found Out Staging: T3N2aM0. Need Help.

Postby WelshIan » Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:37 am

HI,

My diagnosis was the same as yours post surgery the staging was reduced to T3c N2a M0 From T4b N2a MO, after surgery I completed 6 months 8 cycles of capox, oxi stopped after 2 rounds due to complications and had 6 rounds of just Xeloda with only tiredness as the main side effect.

Since I have stopped the chemo I have grown stronger each day, week and now back to almost normal functions, gym , golf, padel and football each week

I am 51yrs young and looking forward to a NED future

Keep positive and do all that is directed, hope your surgery went well and you have a bright future

KEEP THE FIGHT
10/20 colon tumour from ct scan / with lung density
11/20 colonoscopy tumour confirmed
12/20 right side colectomy
1/21 pathology staging T3c N2a 4 lymph nodes of 26 posiive
1/21 ct scan - clear
2/21 CAPOX 3 months cycle 1
2/21 CAPOX 3 months cycle 2
3/21 PICC line removed
3/21 Xeloda cycle 3 cea 0.7
4/21 Xeloda cycle 4 4000mg per day CEA 0.4
6/21 Xeloda cycle 8 of 8 4500mg per day
7/21 CAPOX completed
12/21 Ct Scan and full blood work
12/22 1 yr NED
...ongoing


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