Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

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beach sunrise
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby beach sunrise » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:53 pm

No experience. Your bloodwork may give you a sign. Like some of the ones rp1954 talks about LDH 1-5, ca19-9 ect.
AND, if they are really suspecting mets then I would DEMAND xeloda NOW as part of ADAPT+ celebrex+supplements+IVM or azole protocol because 12 wks is so long. It could make a big difference in my opinion.
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
High dose IVC 1 1/2 wks before surgery. Continue still twice a week
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
7 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 No more
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

prayingforccr
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby prayingforccr » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:34 am

Is it odd/weird to get NINE mets in six months, whereas there had been NONE?

Do they normally all pop up at once? Or would I normally get like 1 or 2 at a clip?

Would it be odd for them to be scattered in all lobes?
Nov 2019: colonoscopy
Dec 2019: diagnosed with stage 3 rectal cancer 6+cm tumor
Jan-mar 2020: 20 sessions of radiation, mon-fri capecetibine, mon-fri clinical trial drug m3814
Apr 2020: tumor/scar 3.7cm
July 2020: began 8 treatmentsFOLFOX
August 2020: ct scan reveals scarbed reduced to 2.7cm CEA is 1.5
Nov 2020: Primary tumor had complete response. Possible tumor deposits on latest mri. Biopsy negative for cancer.
May 2021: Multiple lung nodules (3-6mm) on ct scan

Claudine
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:41 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby Claudine » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:54 am

Unfortunately, if it’s like my husband, a ton popped up pretty fast and in both lungs. By « pretty fast » I mean there were none in May, they were clearly visible the following March but they were already present on the December PET, just too small to really « light up ». So, about 7 months.
Wife of Dx 04/18 (51 yo). MSS, KRAS G12A
No primary (involuted?)
Lytic tumor L4 vertebrae, EBRT 04/18, SBRT 02/19
Resect small intestine 05/18 (no cancer - Crohn's)
Failed adjuvant Xelox
Folfiri + Avastin 03/19 to 01/20
6.7 cm left adrenal mass 03/19, successful resection 02/20
CEA since 03/19: low 3.2, now 81.1
Scan 03/19: Multiple small lung nodules, now gone/calcified
PET 04/20 uptake by L4
L3-L4-L5 fusion surgery and partial corpectomy 05/20
Scan 06/17/2021: stable

Claudine
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:41 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby Claudine » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:59 am

BUT they’ve been dead/gone for over two years now!
Wife of Dx 04/18 (51 yo). MSS, KRAS G12A
No primary (involuted?)
Lytic tumor L4 vertebrae, EBRT 04/18, SBRT 02/19
Resect small intestine 05/18 (no cancer - Crohn's)
Failed adjuvant Xelox
Folfiri + Avastin 03/19 to 01/20
6.7 cm left adrenal mass 03/19, successful resection 02/20
CEA since 03/19: low 3.2, now 81.1
Scan 03/19: Multiple small lung nodules, now gone/calcified
PET 04/20 uptake by L4
L3-L4-L5 fusion surgery and partial corpectomy 05/20
Scan 06/17/2021: stable

prayingforccr
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby prayingforccr » Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:19 pm

Claudine, I’m pretty clear on your huband’s history.

Is the presence of nine nodules where there had been none six months prior very unusual?

As opposed to one, two, or three popping up.

My cea is 2.5 and am asymptomatic.

Please, please, please let the nodules be treatment effect from hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
Nov 2019: colonoscopy
Dec 2019: diagnosed with stage 3 rectal cancer 6+cm tumor
Jan-mar 2020: 20 sessions of radiation, mon-fri capecetibine, mon-fri clinical trial drug m3814
Apr 2020: tumor/scar 3.7cm
July 2020: began 8 treatmentsFOLFOX
August 2020: ct scan reveals scarbed reduced to 2.7cm CEA is 1.5
Nov 2020: Primary tumor had complete response. Possible tumor deposits on latest mri. Biopsy negative for cancer.
May 2021: Multiple lung nodules (3-6mm) on ct scan

Claudine
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:41 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby Claudine » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:51 am

Apologies for asking this if you posted it previously, paryingforccr, but I am wondering if there’s a specific reason for waiting until August for the next scan? Was it suggested by the oncologist because lung mets are typically slow growing? Was it insurance based? Or to give time for the Tippens protocol to be effective?
Very understandably, the situation seems to be causing you an incredible amount of stress and I’m wondering if it would be better for you if the scan was moved to July, for example. Waiting can be so hard.
Wife of Dx 04/18 (51 yo). MSS, KRAS G12A
No primary (involuted?)
Lytic tumor L4 vertebrae, EBRT 04/18, SBRT 02/19
Resect small intestine 05/18 (no cancer - Crohn's)
Failed adjuvant Xelox
Folfiri + Avastin 03/19 to 01/20
6.7 cm left adrenal mass 03/19, successful resection 02/20
CEA since 03/19: low 3.2, now 81.1
Scan 03/19: Multiple small lung nodules, now gone/calcified
PET 04/20 uptake by L4
L3-L4-L5 fusion surgery and partial corpectomy 05/20
Scan 06/17/2021: stable

rp1954
Posts: 1561
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby rp1954 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:14 am

prayingforccr wrote: Is it odd/rare to go from ZERO to NINE small (3-5mm) lung nodules, in all lobes, within 6 months?

There have been apparent similar examples both ways here, from false alarm or successful alt immunochemistry tx, to bad news.

Do you not like the Tippens Protocol for a specific reason?

I haven't seen any useful CRC experience with Tippens either here, other CRC forums or literature specific to CRC. Not that I've done much beyond looking at his site. Each type of cancer has differences, so we have no idea about Tippens. Total roll of the dice whether it does anything. Especially if you don't have a monitoring program that shows improvements or problems brewing.

I’m taking fenbendazole dissolved in dmso/curcumin/full spectrum cbd oil/resveratrol/vitamin d3/vitamin b complex/turkey tail mushrooms/dha each day.

Everything revolves around whether you have artifacts or active mets or not on the CT.
If you are NED, well then you have some chemistry to try to stay free.
If you have active mets then I would be concerned about lack of 5FU, heavier chemistry, and a better monitoring series.
Last edited by rp1954 on Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

prayingforccr
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby prayingforccr » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:20 am

Claudine wrote:Apologies for asking this if you posted it previously, paryingforccr, but I am wondering if there’s a specific reason for waiting until August for the next scan? Was it suggested by the oncologist because lung mets are typically slow growing? Was it insurance based? Or to give time for the Tippens protocol to be effective?
Very understandably, the situation seems to be causing you an incredible amount of stress and I’m wondering if it would be better for you if the scan was moved to July, for example. Waiting can be so hard.


My oncologist suggested we wait because the nodules are so small, and because I am asymptomatic. They are too small to biopsy, too small to treat in her opinion.

From my perspective, I am/was anxious to give the Tippens protocol some time to work.

I vacillate between thinking I’m going to be ok to I’m probably not going to be around long.

Having seen/helped my mother suffer and pass from bone cancer, I have determined that if they are mets, I won’t fight cancer until the end. It’s too horrible.
Nov 2019: colonoscopy
Dec 2019: diagnosed with stage 3 rectal cancer 6+cm tumor
Jan-mar 2020: 20 sessions of radiation, mon-fri capecetibine, mon-fri clinical trial drug m3814
Apr 2020: tumor/scar 3.7cm
July 2020: began 8 treatmentsFOLFOX
August 2020: ct scan reveals scarbed reduced to 2.7cm CEA is 1.5
Nov 2020: Primary tumor had complete response. Possible tumor deposits on latest mri. Biopsy negative for cancer.
May 2021: Multiple lung nodules (3-6mm) on ct scan

rp1954
Posts: 1561
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

wildcards

Postby rp1954 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:51 pm

The time to fight cancer is now, with whatever chemistry/tx packages you choose.

The last minute saves are increasingly difficult, and rare, albeit a little bit more common here.
Two specific last chance examples are the keytruda examples for specific biology, and Sleen's TIL trial for the 1%.
For us, it was chipping away asap at a Big Rock with cumulative chemistry, tests, and surgery, despite some slippage and interference, with some notable good progress events, without the usual side effects.

I am not clear where you are at on (mega)vitamins. Earlier you mentioned the E tocotrienol/tocopherol complex but not now?
What exactly are you doing with D3 and B complex, IU and mg by Mg?
I consider these all active substances but it's hard to know if you're on target with **enough** working chemistry, without enough blood data visibly bending to your favor over time.

One of the immuno phenomena you should be aware of, discussed by our "megavitamin D3" endocrinologist, is that mets could even seem to swell on the CT, right before they dissolve because the immune stuff would build up before/during release on the outside of cancer masses. Drama and tension. My wife had unbiopsied liver lesions where this appeared to happen and one of my conventional drs saw them dissolve on the successive CT scans. Totally.blown.away.

At first the extra blood tests and anti-inflammation work may seem to add to the stress and strain (work), but when they start to bend in your favor one or two at a time and improve over time, that's the big relief/reassurance. When you drift off target, they can noticeably deteriorate and it's a scramble to (re)intensify the (new) chemistry enough and drive the blood panels back to new improved levels, but with that comes some feeling of control if you can do it.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby beach sunrise » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:28 pm

A story: If you consider high dose vitD3 therapy, get support for it as rp says. I read about it then tried it on my own, big mistake. Phosphorous level was to high. Had to back off and start over. About 2mths lost there and had to scramble to convince one of my dr's to research it and help me out. He did thank God and now my level is up there and climbing with a watchful experienced eye on bloodwork. He even gave me a booster shot of D3 in the booty which I was not a fan of but it did help my levels increase without raising phosphorous or unbalancing cal:mg ratio.
I had some lymph nodes that were enlarged (not lighting up) 6 mths ago. Scared the s*** out of me but they have resolved to normal at last scan. I think vitD3 is worth investigating along with other things mentioned. It is needed in all cellular health functions of the body. And low cost therapy as well.
Like you, I am in the grey area of stage III or possibly IV depending on the variables you look at. In my case, I hammer everything I know about and then some hoping to stay stable stage III on scans and keep working towards favorable bloodwork levels.
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
High dose IVC 1 1/2 wks before surgery. Continue still twice a week
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
7 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 No more
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

prayingforccr
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby prayingforccr » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:26 pm

I am taking vitamin d3.

Life extension 125mcg 5000 icu.
Nov 2019: colonoscopy
Dec 2019: diagnosed with stage 3 rectal cancer 6+cm tumor
Jan-mar 2020: 20 sessions of radiation, mon-fri capecetibine, mon-fri clinical trial drug m3814
Apr 2020: tumor/scar 3.7cm
July 2020: began 8 treatmentsFOLFOX
August 2020: ct scan reveals scarbed reduced to 2.7cm CEA is 1.5
Nov 2020: Primary tumor had complete response. Possible tumor deposits on latest mri. Biopsy negative for cancer.
May 2021: Multiple lung nodules (3-6mm) on ct scan

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby beach sunrise » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:43 pm

What's your current D level?
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
High dose IVC 1 1/2 wks before surgery. Continue still twice a week
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
7 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 No more
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

rp1954
Posts: 1561
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby rp1954 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:12 pm

prayingforccr wrote:I am taking vitamin d3.
Life extension 125mcg 5000 icu.

You might want to check your blood levels of 25 hydroxy vitamin D. A lot of colorectals are deficient without special effort, even grossly deficient, often requiring 10,000+ iu per day to simply normalize their levels into the low 30s ng/mL (30 ng/mL = 75 nmol/L) after loading doses and months of a new higher maintenance level. My wife was one of these. The most I've seen claimed for *simple normalization* was ca 20,000 iu per day.

One might arbitrarily consider there to be two megavitamin D blood level regimes for discussion, say 50-100 ng/mL, and over 100 ng/mL. Some might say 125 or 150 ng/mL for the upper threshold value. My wife spent years on vitamin D3 in the 20,000 - 50,000 iu daily intake range. We conferenced our internal medicine MD with an endocrinologist clinically researching high therapeutic levels of vitamin D3 for diabetes and cancer (His regimen removed calcium supplements, added magnesium and MK4, monitor blood, some panels frequently).
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

prayingforccr
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:44 pm

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby prayingforccr » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:20 am

Is going from ZERO to NINE lung mets unusual in 6 months time, with no other signs of cancer?

Can no one answer this question?

My feeling is if they are mets, and there are nine of them in such a short period of time, that I’m a goner.

I’m hoping the small “nodules” found in every lobe of both lungs are treatment effect from hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Other than Claudette, whose husband was stage iv at the time, are nine mets in one shot unusual, or more often would people get 2, then 3, then 5, then 7.........?
Nov 2019: colonoscopy
Dec 2019: diagnosed with stage 3 rectal cancer 6+cm tumor
Jan-mar 2020: 20 sessions of radiation, mon-fri capecetibine, mon-fri clinical trial drug m3814
Apr 2020: tumor/scar 3.7cm
July 2020: began 8 treatmentsFOLFOX
August 2020: ct scan reveals scarbed reduced to 2.7cm CEA is 1.5
Nov 2020: Primary tumor had complete response. Possible tumor deposits on latest mri. Biopsy negative for cancer.
May 2021: Multiple lung nodules (3-6mm) on ct scan

rp1954
Posts: 1561
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Unusual To Go From Zero To Nine Lung Nodules In 6 Months?

Postby rp1954 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 pm

prayingforccr wrote:Is going from ZERO to NINE lung mets unusual in 6 months time, with no other signs of cancer?
Can no one answer this question?

Well, here's a somewhat similar story with 22 lung lesions popping up fast, and a happy ending - but still some ambiguity on whether they were artifacts or not.

My feeling is if they are mets, and there are nine of them in such a short period of time, that I’m a goner.

There have been worse cases saved but definitely skill, determination and luck are factors. Excess caution kills too.
To a degree, fast moving mets theoretically can be easier poison but what that poison is, can be the (multi)million $$ question. BRAF over KRAS would be current counterexample - BRAF variants are apparently faster *and* tougher with known chemistry and alternatives. Vs fast mets that bite the dust, or stabilize, on mild generic combinations.

Other than Claudette, whose husband was stage iv at the time, are nine mets in one shot unusual, or more often would people get 2, then 3, then 5, then 7.........?
"zero" to nine is highish, if really mets, might tend to imply a cryptic met or unknown primary seeding things between scans. An untreated met or a chemo failure might see that explosive growth.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C


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