DK37 Science Posts List

[CRguy]

That is a great link to a great blog !
Thanks once again GrouseMan.

Back in my third year biochem course, I had a prof who loved Linus Pauling... BUTT
he always told us " he may have been riding his own hobby horse a little to much !"

When popular media gets hold of a "promising _______ " fill in your own entry,
they always seem to be harking back to :
" if more is better ... TOO MUCH is just right ! "

This article, I believe, shows us ... if we are willing to listen and read between the lines

THERE IS good science being done all the time
THERE are great discoveries which can and WILL impact major health issues ....
BUTT .....
WE need to weed out the wheat from the chaff

The devil is ALWAYS in the details and this discussion is helping to define AND refine those exact details !

once again my friend
THANK YOU for helping us to do just that !

Best wishes
CRguy

[rp1954]

Derek appears outside the loop on vitamin C. Pauling was aware of the pro-oxidation effect (and Dr Klenner), but got spooked by one the great first hits in cancer medicine. The patient's extensive tumors apparently all necrosed after one infusion - so the patient died of tumor lysis syndrome - too much rotting cancer mass. So now they start slower for 1-2 infusions.

IV vitamin C is the source of the original miracle stories in the 1930s-40s-50s, long before Pauling started in 1966-67. The pro-oxidation observations date back to the late 1930s in published experimental biology papers. This pro-oxidation effect was both cited and clinically utilized extensively by Dr Frederick R Klenner in the 1950s, to destroy pathogens, toxins and poisons (e.g. CO) with astounding ascorbate doses, say 350 - 1500 mg C per kg of body mass in a single infusion (note modern protocols exclude people with severe G6PD deficiency or with severe pre-existing kidney problems). Then repeated twice more for pathogens on the first day, and then continued as needed for several days.

Klenner is still largely unacknowledged in medicine today. Anyone who talks about "high dose" IV vitamin C and can't cite Klenner is likely ignorant or their info corrupted somewhere. Many phenomena cited today, now applied for cancer, were shown earlier, often in the 1930s labwise and applied by Klenner, clinically in the 1940s-50s. Klenner did not publish on cancer per se in his lifetime but his work overlaps on basic phenomena like pro-oxidation, with a few of his comments cited posthumously.

The details of Pauling's story and his vitamin C technical situation is complicated. Basically he didn't get to generate important data that he tried and tried, so hard to get done over a 20 year period, but he was totally frustrated by the agendas of others, spiraling out of control. Interestingly, some his "friendly proteges" damaged him almost as much as the most prominent of his enemies, dissipating his hard raised research funds without the starting/completing crucial experiments, and causing chaos. Pauling simply was unable to get his basic research tasks executed, and his effective role was primarily advocacy. Some of these research tasks have been finally executed, often times without acknowledgement of Pauling's analysis and attempts, or even actual prior data back to the 1930s-40s. Ultimately I fault Pauling for appeasement, not being aggressive enough on the high dose side, trying to waffle in with "lower doses" - I view the public version of his story as a distraction.

Even today what they are calling "high dose" IV vitamin C in the highest dose formal virus treatment experiments to date, after 70+ years wait, are only 1/60th - 1/10th of the rate or dose that my wife uses routinely for cancer, or if need be, coronavirus.

[beach sunrise]

Hi rp, I have been doing the vitamin c infusions since Jan. They started me off on myers cocktail then alternate between vit c and myers. I am up to 100 mg for the vit c, only going one day a week. This week the dose will increase. I feel better personally and it helps with side effects of folfox. I feel cancer is camping out somewhere in my body still after surgery and being on mop up chemo because my CEA is still high. I am keeping fingers crossed that these extra infusions will help with killing cancer. Thank you for your input on this subject while I am online here, I would have hated to miss it.

[GrouseMan]

OK - Its been a while since I posted something in this topic. Generally - I like to showcase some research that is probably directly applicable to the readers of this forum. I certainly don't have as good access to the journals and things that DK37 had or I for that matter 15 years ago. But I still try to keep my eyes open. In that line of thought here is something I recently read from Science Immunology Vol 6 Issue 55

PD-1 blockade exacerbates Mycobacterium tuberculosis infection in rhesus macaques

Link is here: https://immunology.sciencemag.org/conte ... id=3631911

In this research they were testing the idea that perhaps PD-1 checkpoint blockade could also be effective for the treatment of chronic infections including Tuberculosis. Unfortunately the opposite occurs. Seems it exacerbates the infection in rhesus macaques. They recommend that PD-1 based therapy should be used cautiously in cancer patients with a history of Mycobacterium tuberculosis (Mtb)! Which itself is becoming pretty hard to treat now a days.

So if its possible that you could have been exposed to Mtb you may want to be tested before undergoing PD-1 Checkpoint therapy! The TB test is pretty easy I've had it done back in 1985 for pre employment physical.

This study was done with TB but any other chronic bacterial infection might also be exacerbated.

Good Luck
GrouseMan