Salami

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pantufla
Posts: 124
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Salami

Postby pantufla » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:46 am

Hi everyone. My DH still eats salami about 2 times a week. What are your thoughts about this?
DH T2 N1b M0. 3/15 positive nodes.
Stage IIIA moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma.
Tumor size 6 cm.
Left hemicolectomy 10/26/15.
FOLFOX 11/30/15 to 5/2/16, full 12 cycles.
Lynch negative.
10/3/16 CT scan clear.
11/10/17 CT: "Focal opacity along the left lower lung, 7 mm. Two small peripheral opacities along the right lower lobe, 2 to 3 mm. A few small to mildly prominent left-sided central mesenteric nodes, up to 13 mm. There are subcentimeter retroperitoneal lymph nodes."
CEA 0.5

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Atoq
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 am

Re: Salami

Postby Atoq » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:08 am

The WHO adviced to reduce the quantity of processed meat in the diet for everybody. Each of us is responsible for a little part of our health through diet and life style, but that’s not so much. If you want to help him make a lot of good and healthy food to balance for the salami. I would be rather irritated if my husband was watching what I eat and criticising me and would probably get more stubborn than change in response of that :wink:

Atoq
45 year old, mother of 2
Dx rectal cancer October 2017
At least T3N2aMX (suspect metastasis to one lung 8 mm)
Lynch negative
Neoadjuvant chemoradiotherapy Xeloda + 25x2 Gy
05.12.17 laparotomic surgery for blockage, colostomy
25.01.18 laparotomic lar, hysterectomy, ileostomy
05.03.18 core needle biopsy of lung, updated to stage IV
07.05.18 CAT scan, lung metastasis 11 mm
04.06.18 ileostomy reversal
26.06.18 wedge VATS surgery

Utwo
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am
Location: T.O.

Re: Salami

Postby Utwo » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:45 am

How old is your husband?

My son (a medical doctor) once told me that from point of view of cancer recurrence I could eat anything.
There is no scientific evidence that your diet has any measurable effect on a risk of recurrence.

On the other hand I significantly modified my diet and level of physical activitiy when on a CT scan I saw all these calcified plaques in my coronary arteries. :(
Last edited by Utwo on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
58 yo male at diagnosis - T1bN0, 0/15 lymph nodes, low grade/moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma
03/2016 colonoscopy #1: 2 small polyps removed in left colon; CEA = 1.3
04/2016 colonoscopy #2: caecum sessile 3.5 cm polyp piecemeal removed with kind of clear margins
05/2016 CT scan, blood test ...
05/2016 "prophylactic" laparoscopic right hemicolectomy with a few complications (bleeding, leak, infection)
06/2017 CT scan (lower body), colonoscopy OK; CEA = 1.6

NHMike
Posts: 1429
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Salami

Postby NHMike » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:04 pm

I'd suggest that he look at the Blue Zone literature.

There is no proof on diet but looking at the behaviors of the people that live the longest might influence those that want to live a long and healthier life.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: Stage 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 x 4.5 x 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda +radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 x 2.2 x 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx 8 cycles 12/17-6/18

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Salami

Postby weisssoccermom » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:35 pm

I'm going to give you my 2 cents on this subject. Over the last 12 years since I was diagnosed, I have read most of those articles and what they actually say is that if people eat a large quantity of these specific foods on an ongoing basis, it 'may' have an impact on their health. The problem is that the headlines don't reflect the 'large quantity' aspect of it and most people don't tend to read the entire articles. For example, the studies with respect to red meat (not processed meat such as hot dogs, lunchmeat, etc.) give the impression that eating ANY red meat is bad for you. That's NOT what the studies say. Studies indicate that prolonged consumption of red meat in excess of 20 ounces a week has been shown to have an effect on the body with respect to cancer. That is certainly NOT the same as saying someone should avoid red meat completely.

So, I just looked up what the WHO has to say on this fact. Yes, (and again, read everything) the WHO has shown a correlation between certain cancers and eating processed meat on a DAILY basis. The studies show eating 50 grams of processed meats (a little less than 2 ounces) each and every day (notice not 1 or 2 a week) appears to raise the risk of a person being diagnosed with colorectal cancer. Let's put some of this into perspective. The amount of processed meat being discussed is the equivalent of eating 4 strips of bacon or a hot day PER DAY on a continuous basis. The article went further and stated that a person's risk of being diagnosed with colorectal cancer is roughly 5% (assuming no other risk or familial factors) and eating this amount of processed meats increases a person's risk now to 6%!

You also have to understand that your husband has been through a lot and, IMO, he may feel that he didn't go through the surgery, chemo, etc. to be told..."STOP...you can't eat that!" He knows what he wants to do and he's an adult. Honestly, he's not engaging in some terrible behavior. I can tell you stories of people who ate all the right foods/avoided all the 'wrong' ones, exercised like a fiend, didn't drink or smoke and yet got a recurrence.

I'm not going to tell you that if your husband doesn't eat salami he won't get a recurrence nor can I predict that he will get a recurrence. I can tell you that cancer is unpredictable and wreaks havoc on all of our lives. My advice....let him be. He's not engaging in 'risky' behavior and he's apparently happy enjoying his salami. It's hard enough after treatment to not worry about the cancer recurring....without having to be super cognizant of everything you eat or do. Now, I'm not a particular salami fan but if I wanted some....nobody is going to stop me. IF my husband had tried to tell me to stop eating something because he had read/heard something, even if he had been well meaning....I would have been SO ticked at him. Let hubby enjoy it.....there are a lot worse things than some salami a few times a week.
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

SteveNZ
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:21 pm
Location: New Zealnd

Re: Salami

Postby SteveNZ » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:00 pm

But is it a good salami? What sort of mean breath does it create?
Haha - Only joking. But wish to share that to myself it is no big deal and over time we all need to figure out a healthy diet.
It is great that you care. As a husband I can confirm we respond really well to more loving and less nursing.
May God bless you.
Aged 56 - I feel really young...
Colo-Rectal Cancer T2 N1 M0
March 2018 - Diagnosis
April-May 2018 Radiation+Chemo then a TIA (Minor Stroke). - Stopped Chemo.
June 2018 - Sitting it out before operation. ....Pretty Miserable- emotions gone weird....?!
*Decided to live to 100 as I will get a telegram from Her Majesty the Queen when 100yrs old. I so, so want one.
Am a Salvation Army chap so I complete 'knee drill' (prayer) to the Commander in Chief often. For myself personally this helps me through.

Lydia666
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:50 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Salami

Postby Lydia666 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:50 pm

There are now no nitrates salami, it should be less harmful.
Oct 2012- thyroid cancer
June 2015 Dx@39 yrs- CRC-T3N1M0
No vascular, no perineural invasion
Aug-Sept 2015- 28 rad/5FU
Oct 28, 2015- LAR- temp ileo, neg. nodes- 0/11
March 2016- 6 rounds Xeloda/positive CHEK2 mutation
May 2016- clear CT
July 2016- ileo reversal
August 2016- DCIS breast cancer
Oct 13,2016 - lumpectomy
Dec 2016 - clean scope
Feb 24,2017- prophylactic double mastectomy
April 2017- clean scope
May 2017 -clean CT
Sept 2017 - clean lung CT
May 2018 - clean CT
Mom to 3 & 6 yrs kids

hawkowl
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:29 am
Location: MN/FL

Re: Salami

Postby hawkowl » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:22 am

My parents were born in Austria; my wife is German, so there is a lot of salami and other traditionally unhealthy foods eaten by my family. I, on the other hand, always strove to be healthy...a largely plant based organic diet, avoided processed meat, lots of exercise, never overweight, minimal alcohol use...yet I am the one who ended up with cancer.. not my overweight, sedentary, beer drinking, salami eating family members. So I would say a small serving of salami now and then (in the setting of a healthy diet and lifestyle overall) is fine.
Dx 12/2014 T3N2MX (iliac nodes) low rectal
12/2014-4/2015: FOLFOX (8 cycles)
4/2015-6/2015: 28 cycles of chemoradiation with xeloda
8/2015: Robotic APR with iliac node dissection; path showed ypT0,ypN0 (complete pathological response).
11/2015 scans clear, CEA 2.1
11/2015 parastomal hernia repair
3/2016 CEA 1.7
10/2017 CEA remains in normal range (1.4), scans stable.
6/2018 CEA still normal.

Totally disabled due to oxaliplatin induced neuropathy and dysautonomia

NHMike
Posts: 1429
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Salami

Postby NHMike » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 am

hawkowl wrote:My parents were born in Austria; my wife is German, so there is a lot of salami and other traditionally unhealthy foods eaten by my family. I, on the other hand, always strove to be healthy...a largely plant based organic diet, avoided processed meat, lots of exercise, never overweight, minimal alcohol use...yet I am the one who ended up with cancer.. not my overweight, sedentary, beer drinking, salami eating family members. So I would say a small serving of salami now and then (in the setting of a healthy diet and lifestyle overall) is fine.


I believe that my cancer developed from having the flu for several months and working through it. The immune system was just not able to do its job.

So exercise, nutrition are good things. But getting enough rest, especially when run down, is important too.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: Stage 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 x 4.5 x 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda +radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 x 2.2 x 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx 8 cycles 12/17-6/18

mpbser
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:37 pm

"There is no scientific evidence that your diet has any measurable effect on a risk of recurrence."

Then I don't understand why the NCAN guidelines recommend a plant based diet. I honestly think that statements such as "There is no scientific evidence that your diet has any measurable effect on a risk of recurrence" are a bunch of BS.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18

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Atoq
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 am

Re: Salami

Postby Atoq » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:26 am

Maybe there are no specific studies on reoccurrence, but is quite likely that reoccurrence follows the same rules as primary cancer, and then it is reccommended to avoid meat and especially processed meat. Maybe once you have had cancer your odds are more dependent on other factors, but still it is worth to eat a plant based diet also because of sustainability.

Claudia
45 year old, mother of 2
Dx rectal cancer October 2017
At least T3N2aMX (suspect metastasis to one lung 8 mm)
Lynch negative
Neoadjuvant chemoradiotherapy Xeloda + 25x2 Gy
05.12.17 laparotomic surgery for blockage, colostomy
25.01.18 laparotomic lar, hysterectomy, ileostomy
05.03.18 core needle biopsy of lung, updated to stage IV
07.05.18 CAT scan, lung metastasis 11 mm
04.06.18 ileostomy reversal
26.06.18 wedge VATS surgery

Utwo
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am
Location: T.O.

Re: Salami

Postby Utwo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:06 am

mpbser wrote:Then I don't understand why the NCAN guidelines recommend a plant based diet.
Could you please share this link with us.
58 yo male at diagnosis - T1bN0, 0/15 lymph nodes, low grade/moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma
03/2016 colonoscopy #1: 2 small polyps removed in left colon; CEA = 1.3
04/2016 colonoscopy #2: caecum sessile 3.5 cm polyp piecemeal removed with kind of clear margins
05/2016 CT scan, blood test ...
05/2016 "prophylactic" laparoscopic right hemicolectomy with a few complications (bleeding, leak, infection)
06/2017 CT scan (lower body), colonoscopy OK; CEA = 1.6

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Salami

Postby weisssoccermom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 am

Maybe there are no specific studies on reoccurrence, but is quite likely that reoccurrence follows the same rules as primary cancer, and then it is reccommended to avoid meat and especially processed meat. Maybe once you have had cancer your odds are more dependent on other factors, but still it is worth to eat a plant based diet also because of sustainability.



Please share the links that you have from reputable sources that say NO red/processed meat for even primary cancer. EVERY study that I have seen with respect to this subject says to limit red meat to approx. 18 - 20 ounces/week. I think people take this whole AVOID red meat to an extreme. It's just like everything else....MODERATION.

In addition, I don't think one can also state that there is a correlation between what may be recommended for primary cancer and that the same applies with respect towards recurrence. One could argue that, in my case, my diet was a potential factor in my diagnosis. I have no family history of colorectal cancer so rule that one out. I don't drink, don't smoke but am not physically active and I regularly ate red meat 3-4 times a week. Honestly, haven't changed my diet with respect to meat since diagnosis and I'm 12 years out from that date and 11+ years out from my last treatment. I still don't drink or smoke and am not particularly physically active. Has my diet changed? Absolutely not. What HAS changed is that I am more cognizant of the fact that MY body tends to be a particularly welcoming host for colorectal polyps and probably always will be. I don't particularly like a 'plant based diet' and refuse to follow it. Sure, I eat my veggies and fruit but certainly not as much as most diets recommend and no way am I near even a partial plant based diet.

We need to be careful about making comments that we can make a huge difference in recurrence rates if we only follow a plant based diet and/or get more exercise. Sure, eating a better diet and eating unhealthy things (high fat meats, processed meats) in moderation and getting more exercise are all good things but to imply that avoiding red and/or processed meat and being more physically active will somehow stop a person from a recurrence is, IMO, irresponsible and unfair. Each person has to decide for him/herself what he/she is willing to do/not do with respect to lifestyle changes.....particularly after having gone through cancer. What's the right choice for one person isn't necessarily the right choice for another.
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

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peanut_8
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:31 pm
Location: Capital of Texas

Re: Salami

Postby peanut_8 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:08 am

There is quite a bit of evidence that regular exercise post cancer diagnosis can help prevent a reoccurrence.

http://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/201 ... ecurrence/

My onc, Dr. B, is a huge advocate of exercise, especially walking.

Best Wishes,
peanut
Terri aka peanut
diagnosed Jan 14, RC stage 2a, age 56
permanent colostomy
MSS
April 14, 28 chemo/rad with Xeloda
June 14 adjuvant Xeloda 6 rounds
currently NED

NHMike
Posts: 1429
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Salami

Postby NHMike » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:20 am

peanut_8 wrote:There is quite a bit of evidence that regular exercise post cancer diagnosis can help prevent a reoccurrence.

http://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/201 ... ecurrence/

My onc, Dr. B, is a huge advocate of exercise, especially walking.

Best Wishes,
peanut


I worked out a lot before cancer so the risk is always there, even if reduced. I should talk to the DFCI doctor and see what he thinks about high levels of exercise.

Image
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: Stage 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 x 4.5 x 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda +radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 x 2.2 x 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx 8 cycles 12/17-6/18


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