Post Surgery Help and CEA

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tater
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:53 pm

Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby tater » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:00 am

Quickly as I am on break at work.

My wife finished radiation on her pelvis in May of 2017, after we had chemo and surgery the first of Nov. of last year. We just had our first scan since surgery and got great results as things appear to be clear and their was no evidence of disease. We got out of sequence because we had five spots show up on the liver during treatments. At surgery the removed two on the bottom of the right lobe that appeared to be the largest and most suspicious. They came back benign. Her latest MRI suggest that the remaining three spots on her liver are also hemangiomas as they are actually decreasing is size. The CT scan showed a lot of inflamation in the pelvic region around the re-connection point of the colon to the anal diverge. She had her rectum and sigmoid colon removed along with her uterus, overies, small sliver of her vagina and iliac nodes on the right side.

What are some things we should be doing to help the inflamation go down? The surgeons say it is from the affects of the radiation. She can not have her reversal surgery until it goes down.

Second question. Her CEA has been as high as 26 and 29. After radiation is dropped to about 2.5. During Chemo it went over 3 but dropped down to 1.5 after surgery about 8 weeks ago. We just got her results back to day from last week and it rose to 2.1. My wife is freaking out. What do I tell her?
DH to 38 wife w/kids
Stage 3C DX 3/3/17 CEA 29
5-fu and radiation ended May 17, 2017
Stage 4 External iliac node July 17, 2017
FOLFOX + Avistan July 18 2017 CEA 2.3
Nov 9, 2017 Coloanal Anastomosis, Hysterectomy & External Nodes Removed W/ileostomy
Clear Margins NED
CEA 1.5 12/17, 2.1 2/18, 2.3 6/18, 1.1 9/18, 1.3 12/18
Clear CT and MRI on 2/5/2018, 9/18 Clear Scans
Reversal Surgery 6/26/18

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susie0915
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:17 am
Facebook Username: Susan DeGrazia Hostetter
Location: Michigan

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby susie0915 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:36 am

My oncologist told me not to worry about small increases in CEA so long as they're staying within normal range. Mine generally is less than .5 and went up to 1.1. I emailed her concerned and she said not to sorry. The next CEA was back to less than .5. Hopefully, your wife won't worry too much, but maybe if she can contact her oncologist he/she can put her mind at ease.
58 yrs old Dx @ 55
5/15 DX T3N0MO
6/15 5 wks chemo/rad
7/15 sigmoidoscopy/only scar tissue left
8/15 Pet scan NED
9/15 LAR
0/24 nodes
10/15 Bowel blockage. surgery,early ileo rev, c-diff inf :(
12/15 6 rds of xelox
5/16 Clear CT lung scarring/inflammation
9/16 clear colonoscopy
4/17 CT 4mm lung nod
7/17 no change lung nod
10/17 Clear pel/abd CT
11/17 CEA<.5
1/18 CT/Lung no change in 4mm nodule
5/18 CEA<.5, clear CT pel/abd/lung nod no change
11/18 CEA .6

tater
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby tater » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 pm

She's got a call in. I am wondering where she is a celiac post surgery she started to eat some gluten to get weight back on. I hear that gluten for a celiac can cause inflamation but I'm not sure if that is truth or fiction. It's just odd that the first test after surgery it was at 1.5 and now after the second test its gone back up to 2.1. The doc says anything below 3 is normal.
DH to 38 wife w/kids
Stage 3C DX 3/3/17 CEA 29
5-fu and radiation ended May 17, 2017
Stage 4 External iliac node July 17, 2017
FOLFOX + Avistan July 18 2017 CEA 2.3
Nov 9, 2017 Coloanal Anastomosis, Hysterectomy & External Nodes Removed W/ileostomy
Clear Margins NED
CEA 1.5 12/17, 2.1 2/18, 2.3 6/18, 1.1 9/18, 1.3 12/18
Clear CT and MRI on 2/5/2018, 9/18 Clear Scans
Reversal Surgery 6/26/18

Lee
Posts: 5740
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby Lee » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:53 pm

MY CEA bounces around. It can go from 2.5 to 3.5 then back down to 3.2, etc.

What they are looking for is an upward trend over a few CEA test results

Lee
rectal cancer - April 2004
46 yrs old at diagnoses
stage III C - 6/13 lymph positive
radiation - 6 weeks
surgery - August 2004/hernia repair 2014
permanent colostomy
chemo - FOLFOX
NED - 10 years and counting!

rp1954
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby rp1954 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:30 am

Your wife's CEA spread is well within normal scatter for "no change" at this point following RT and will be unimpressive to the drs. Whether further immediate chemo is planned or not, I personally would monitor bloodwork more closely than is "standard" to define a nadir, her markers' noise/fluctuations, and any subsequent rise more clearly and timely.

What are some things we should be doing to help the inflamation go down? The surgeons say it is from the affects of the radiation. She can not have her reversal surgery until it goes down.

I'd ask around places from the biochemically oriented, oncology oriented naturopaths or alternative MDs about anti inflammatory strategies. I found Life Extension Foundation's articles and ND helpful with alternative answers free on their toll free line. I found RIordan Clinic's free answers useful on vitamin C, some supplements and cancer. Patients often bounce back from treatment much quicker with advanced nutrition plans and do better in surgery.

We were able to damp down long running inflammation and markers' "noise" with these nonstandard chemistries, even while on chemo. Dealing with a colon cancer patient, there was no radiation involved. Our specific circumstances and chemistry might not match yours, but our combined anti-inflammatories included things like fish oil, baby aspirin, celecoxib, IV vitamin C, serrapeptase, MSM, bosweilla, curcumin, EGCG, silymarin, quercetin and other flavonoids.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC since early 2010. 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC, now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher

heiders33
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:08 am

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby heiders33 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:13 am

rp1954, can you tell me how your wife takes curcumin? Is it in pill or powder form? I am planning to start taking it but want to make sure it has maximum effectiveness. I think I read on another board how to do this, but it was a bit confusing.
36 year-old female
May 2017: Dx rectal cancer at T3N2M0
MSS, KRAS G12A
June-July 2017: 28 days of XEL/radiation
Sep 2017: laparoscopic LAR/loop ileostomy
Oct 2017 - February 2018: XELOX six rounds
Mar 2018: reversal
Apr 2018: CEA 2.1, normal blood counts
May 2018: CT liver spot
Aug 2018: Abnormal PET, CEA 2.4
Sep 2018: robotic and laparoscopic liver resection with HAI pump
Oct 2018: Clear CT and colonoscopy, CEA 1.7, begin six months FUDR and FOLFIRI

rp1954
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby rp1954 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:30 am

Curcumin caps or tablets with bioperine, but we're doing more than just one flavonoid. Total load counts.

Probably the best curcumin-cancer blog is Margaret's Corner for smoldering myeloma, where I think people have done up to 10-12 grams per day of curcumin. In the archives she talks about various pills and powder, and sourcing them.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC since early 2010. 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC, now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher

SweetC80
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby SweetC80 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:55 am

My mom's CEA would go up and down slightly, but it was more an overall picture the Onco was worried about. Since CEA was a good indicator for my mother he wanted to see big jumps or dips to better determine what might be going on. Her health portal would graph test results and it was easy to see when there was a big change (good or bad) based on her CEA with a lot of little ups and downs in between.
My Mom
12/16 Stage IIIb Rectal Ca CEA 1.2
1/17-2/17 Chemoradiation CEA 4.4
5/17 Entire Colon, Rectum & Anus removed Perm Ileostomy Bag
7/17 FOLFOX
9/17 Stage IVb 9cm Liver Met & 7mm Lung Nodule CEA 197
9/17 FOLFIRI CEA 160
10/17 Confirmed KRAS Pos CEA 210
11/17 Met growths Liver 10cm & Lung 8mm CEA 425
12/17 FOLFOX again Met growths Liver 13cm & Lung 1cm CEA 405
12/17 Xifaxan due to Hepatic Encephalopathy
12/17 New 2cm liver Met
1/18 CEA 992
2/8/18 Passed Peacefully

NHMike
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby NHMike » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:06 am

My CEA high was 2.7 at diagnosis and dropped as low as 0.6 after surgery but the CEA at the hospital where I had surgery done likely has a different scale for it so it's something that I ignore. It was 1.7 at my local hospital before starting Adjuvant Chemo and rose to 2.2 after my first cycle and has been there since then. The hospital test says that under 3.8 is considered normal. So I was actually normal even though I had a 100 cc tumor growing inside me.

I was stressed out when I saw it go from 1.7 to 2.2 after chemo but a lot of people told me that that is normal.

I do feel your anxiety - as there's always stuff to worry about with cancer. But I try to keep the anxiety under control with work and chores. That works for some people.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 4.5 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8; 5/1 2.8; 5/29 3.2; 7/13 4.5; 8/9 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 2.2 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx (8) 12/17-6/18
7/18: Reversal, Port Removal

zephyr
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby zephyr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:03 am

From Memorial Sloane Kettering -- Patient Warnings and Do Not Take If regarding taking curcumin/turmeric during chemo:
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/turmeric
Nov-2009 Early stage CRC found during routine colonoscopy
2010, 2011, 2014 Follow up colonoscopies, all clear
Jun-2016 CRC found during routine follow up colonoscopy, surgery, Stage 4, KRAS, inoperable lung mets
Aug-2016-May-2018 Folfox, 5FU & Avastin, 5FU, Folfiri & Cyramza
Aug/Sep-2018 YAG laser surgeries (Germany) on both lungs, 11 nodules (9 mets) removed

tater
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Post Surgery Help and CEA

Postby tater » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:38 pm

NHMike wrote:My CEA high was 2.7 at diagnosis and dropped as low as 0.6 after surgery but the CEA at the hospital where I had surgery done likely has a different scale for it so it's something that I ignore. It was 1.7 at my local hospital before starting Adjuvant Chemo and rose to 2.2 after my first cycle and has been there since then. The hospital test says that under 3.8 is considered normal. So I was actually normal even though I had a 100 cc tumor growing inside me.

I was stressed out when I saw it go from 1.7 to 2.2 after chemo but a lot of people told me that that is normal.

I do feel your anxiety - as there's always stuff to worry about with cancer. But I try to keep the anxiety under control with work and chores. That works for some people.



thank you their is always something you can worry about.
DH to 38 wife w/kids
Stage 3C DX 3/3/17 CEA 29
5-fu and radiation ended May 17, 2017
Stage 4 External iliac node July 17, 2017
FOLFOX + Avistan July 18 2017 CEA 2.3
Nov 9, 2017 Coloanal Anastomosis, Hysterectomy & External Nodes Removed W/ileostomy
Clear Margins NED
CEA 1.5 12/17, 2.1 2/18, 2.3 6/18, 1.1 9/18, 1.3 12/18
Clear CT and MRI on 2/5/2018, 9/18 Clear Scans
Reversal Surgery 6/26/18


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