Will my BM's ever return to normal?

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Thetoad
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:46 am
Location: New Zealand

Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Thetoad » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:45 am

44 months since bowel cancer surgery, about half of it removed. Sometimes normal but often soft and/or explosive still. I take a teaspoon of Konsyl D each day as a fibre supplement. At times the urge becomes urgent and nobody should get in my way and certainly not be using the toilet when they hear me coming! I don't think it's a major problem and my Dr agrees, but is this the norm for ever now? My follow up bloods and scans have all been good. It was an extended right hemicolectomy, T3N0M0. Anyone similar, especially round the 3 1/2 year mark?
Emergency extended right hemicolectomy November 2013.
Complete blockage, small perforation.
Stage 2a.
T3N0M0
22 Lymph nodes clear.
No bag.
All CEA tests, CT scans and follow up colonoscopy ok.
Now on yearly appts and 6 monthly CEA tests.
Large incisional hernia repaired with mesh Nov. 2014.
Cellulitus bottom of scar.
CEA 1.4 on 28/7/17
Just passed 48 months since surgery! (November 13, 2013.) All good so far.
27/5/17. Gallbladder removed, open surgery.
Pleasing consultation Feb. 2017
CEA 1.7 on 16/11/17

Jacques
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:38 am

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Jacques » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:58 am

I might have some comments, but my situation was different from yours, since I had pelvic (rectal) surgery as well as pelvic radiation, and these obviously affect bowel control.

I would suggest that you first focus on comments from people who have had treatments similar to yours (i.e., right hemicolectomy, no radiation). I don't think my comments would be very relevant, even though my experience at the 44 month mark was simillar to yours.

What kind of surgery did you have, open or laparoscopic? How extensive was your hernia repair operation, and how large was the mesh?
DX(2012): RC
Stage IIc,T4b N0 M0 L0 PN1 H0 D0 P0 I1
LAR
MSI: not tested
Chimio-radiothérapie
Chimiothérapie adjuvante : capécitabine + oxaliplatine
CEA < 1.0,
5 years NED,
End of 6-month follow-ups: 7/2017
----
Info links:
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List of Forum Features
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Thetoad
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:46 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Thetoad » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:29 am

Hello Jacques. The bowel surgery was open and was an emergency because of a blockage. The hernia was in that incision and was also open surgery with a dinner sized plate of mesh. Then about 9 weeks ago my gallbladder was removed also with open surgery. Thanks for your reply and best wishes.
Emergency extended right hemicolectomy November 2013.
Complete blockage, small perforation.
Stage 2a.
T3N0M0
22 Lymph nodes clear.
No bag.
All CEA tests, CT scans and follow up colonoscopy ok.
Now on yearly appts and 6 monthly CEA tests.
Large incisional hernia repaired with mesh Nov. 2014.
Cellulitus bottom of scar.
CEA 1.4 on 28/7/17
Just passed 48 months since surgery! (November 13, 2013.) All good so far.
27/5/17. Gallbladder removed, open surgery.
Pleasing consultation Feb. 2017
CEA 1.7 on 16/11/17

Beckster
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Beckster » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:44 am

Thetoad wrote:44 months since bowel cancer surgery, about half of it removed. Sometimes normal but often soft and/or explosive still. I take a teaspoon of Konsyl D each day as a fibre supplement. At times the urge becomes urgent and nobody should get in my way and certainly not be using the toilet when they hear me coming! I don't think it's a major problem and my Dr agrees, but is this the norm for ever now? My follow up bloods and scans have all been good. It was an extended right hemicolectomy, T3N0M0. Anyone similar, especially round the 3 1/2 year mark?


I had a laparoscopic right hemi preformed in Nov 2016. After I finished 6 months of Xeloda, my bowel movements are completely normal. Once a day and done! Maybe your situation is due to an open procedure...also, was your surgeon a colon rectal specialist?
57/Female
DX:(CC) 10/19/16
11/4/16- Lap right hemi(cecum)
CEA- Pre Op (1.9), Pre Chemo (2.5)
Tumor type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size: 3.5 cm x 2.5 x 0.7 cm
Tumor grade: G3 (surgical) G2 (pre-op)
TNM: T3N0M0/IIA
Positive lymph nodes: 0/24
Lymphovascular invasion
Surgical margins: clear
Lynch- Negative
12/27/2016 - Capeox, anaphylactic reaction to oxaliplatin on first infusion-discontinued
1/2/17 to 6/9/17- Xeloda monotherapy
6/26/17- CT scan NED :D
CEA- 6/17- 3.6, 9/17- 2.8
Clear Colonoscopy 10/17 :D

inder_muc
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:54 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby inder_muc » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:14 am

I had right hemi last year. Few weeks after surgery my BMs returned normal. I had open surgery too.
DX 07/2016 Colon Cancer Age 38, Male - Right Hemicolectomy
Stage 2A T3N0M0
Lynch Syndrome

Utwo
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am
Location: T.O.

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Utwo » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:11 pm

Thetoad wrote:44 months since bowel cancer surgery, about half of it removed. Sometimes normal but often soft and/or explosive still. I take a teaspoon of Konsyl D each day as a fibre supplement. At times the urge becomes urgent and nobody should get in my way and certainly not be using the toilet when they hear me coming! I don't think it's a major problem and my Dr agrees, but is this the norm for ever now? My follow up bloods and scans have all been good. It was an extended right hemicolectomy, T3N0M0. Anyone similar, especially round the 3 1/2 year mark?

Thetoad
, could you please describe your diet?
Why do you need Konsyl D? Is it possible that Konsyl D is a root cause of your problems?
What kind of bowel movements pattern do you have while on BRAT diet without Konsyl D?
Have you already tried natural yoghurt or other probiotics? Normalizing the flora of your guts may be challenging in case of right hemicolectomy because of the missing ileo-caecal valve and such probiotics may help.

In my case BM pattern more or less normalised.
I still experiment with amount of fruits and vegetables I can eat. Sometimes, when I eat too much fibers, my guts are getting into more active state with 5 to 6 BMs per day. In this case I fall back on BRAT diet, and after a few days my BM pattern is back to "normal".

Some people with right hemicolectomy claim that they are back to their former diet and former pre-surgery BM pattern.
In my case I see a noticeable difference, that can be managed by adjusted diet.
I still eat less fruits and vegetables than prior to surgery and try to limit the number of fruits and vegetables with large seeds.

P.S. When I have to go - I can't wait and have to go. :(
However I typically can predict such situation at least 20 minutes in advance.
58 yo male at diagnosis - T1bN0, 0/15 lymph nodes, low grade/moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma
03/2016 colonoscopy #1: 2 small polyps removed in left colon; CEA = 1.3
04/2016 colonoscopy #2: caecum sessile 3.5 cm polyp piecemeal removed
05/2016 CT scan, blood test ...
05/2016 laparoscopic right hemicolectomy with a few complications (bleeding, leak, infection)
06/2017 CT scan, colonoscopy OK; CEA = 1.6

Thetoad
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:46 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Thetoad » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:51 pm

Thanks Beckster and Utwo. As far as I can tell, he is a colorectal surgeon and is described as a senior lecturer. To me, he looks quite young, but may be 40 something. As far as my diet goes, you may be right Utwo. The Konsyl D was advised by my colorectal nurse and the amount has varied from one to two teaspoons daily. I did stop taking it after my recent gallbladder removal, for about six weeks and I seem to be a bit more normal since I resumed. But my diet! I've often wondered about that. I do eat anything really and am heavy on the sweet stuff like ice cream, chocolates, etc. I don't drink alcohol. Nor do I take probiotics but I do have yoghurt almost daily. (I might have answered my own question, looking at the sweet food habit.) The reason I was given is that with so much bowel missing, water is not absorbed so much, resulting in looser motions. Hence, the Konsyl D which is meant to help absorb water.
I'll look at the BRAT diet. My Dr simply said, 'at least you're getting rid of it now,' which is true, but ....
Thanks again for the replies from everyone. And best wishes for the future! :)
Emergency extended right hemicolectomy November 2013.
Complete blockage, small perforation.
Stage 2a.
T3N0M0
22 Lymph nodes clear.
No bag.
All CEA tests, CT scans and follow up colonoscopy ok.
Now on yearly appts and 6 monthly CEA tests.
Large incisional hernia repaired with mesh Nov. 2014.
Cellulitus bottom of scar.
CEA 1.4 on 28/7/17
Just passed 48 months since surgery! (November 13, 2013.) All good so far.
27/5/17. Gallbladder removed, open surgery.
Pleasing consultation Feb. 2017
CEA 1.7 on 16/11/17

Utwo
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am
Location: T.O.

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Utwo » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:06 pm

Thetoad wrote:The Konsyl D was advised by my colorectal nurse and the amount has varied from one to two teaspoons daily. The reason I was given is that with so much bowel missing, water is not absorbed so much, resulting in looser motions. Hence, the Konsyl D which is meant to help absorb water.

Konsyl D a.k.a. Psyllium a.k.a. Metamucil can be used in both cases of diarrhea and constipation.
In case of hemicolectomy you have enough colon to absorb enough water.
I do not believe that you need to take Konsyl D just to improve water intake unless you are dehydrated without it.
I also experimented with Metamucil in the first few months after my surgery, but then abandoned it.


Thetoad wrote: Nor do I take probiotics but I do have yoghurt almost daily.

Typicall grocery store yoghurts do not count. I was talking about natural non-pasterised yoghurt.
It should have "non-pasterised" or "live culture" phrases on the label.
You may buy it in a store or make it DIY.


Thetoad wrote: I'll look at the BRAT diet.

My definition of BRAT fiet:
- bananas, apples (skinned and cored)
- rice, white bread, potatoes
- meat, fish, chicken, eggs
It should be used only as a foundation and supplemented with more fruits and vegetables (up to your tolerance level).

Personally I do not believe that sweets have a significsnt impact on bowel movements pattern.

Bon appetit!
58 yo male at diagnosis - T1bN0, 0/15 lymph nodes, low grade/moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma
03/2016 colonoscopy #1: 2 small polyps removed in left colon; CEA = 1.3
04/2016 colonoscopy #2: caecum sessile 3.5 cm polyp piecemeal removed
05/2016 CT scan, blood test ...
05/2016 laparoscopic right hemicolectomy with a few complications (bleeding, leak, infection)
06/2017 CT scan, colonoscopy OK; CEA = 1.6

Deb m
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Deb m » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:11 am

My husband had 15 inches of his right colon along with his cecum and appendix removed in 2011. His BM's are for the most part normal as along as he takes 2 Imodiums every day.

deb m

MissMolly
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:33 pm
Location: Portland, Ore

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby MissMolly » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:55 am

The Toad:

That you have had recent gall bladder surgery is likely a contributor to your episodes of urgency. The gallbladder contributes bike salts that emulsify fats during the digestive process. It is often wise to limit the intake and eating of foods with higher fat contents for 3-4 months following gall bladder surgery. Ex. Avoid or limit full-fat milk and ice cream, bacon, sausage, advocades, et al.

The autonomic nervous system is quietly regulating the motility of your digestive tract 24-7. But the workings of the autonomic nervous system can be upset and disquieted by the trauma of surgery. Comparing yourself to someone else may or may not take into account differences in sensitivity of the autonomic nervous system.

Food choices do have an affect on intestinal motility. Flavonoids in chocolate and coffee and caffeine will have a stimulating effect on the GI tract. Simple sugars in food choices will lend to increased motility and a sense of urgency. Look for Foods with more complex carbohydrates and ease off of foods with a preponderence of simple sugars (ex. Chose a Triscuit cracker over a saltine; chose steel cut oatmeal over a bowel of corn flakes).

Everyday stress will affect the intestinal tract by action of epinephrine, increasing motility and lending to urgency. Practicing relaxation techniques and even going for a walk can lower stress hormones and calm the intestinal tract.
Karen
Devoted daughter to my father, diagnosed with stage 2 colon cancer Nov-2014.
Dear friend to Bella Piazza, former CC member.
I have a permanent ileostomy and offer advice on living with an ostomy.
I have been on Palliative Care for broad endocrine failure + Addison's disease + osteonecrosis of both hips/jaw + immunosuppression and recurrent infection x 4 years. I transitioned to Hospice Sept-2016, but it was not yet my time. I am back on Palliative Care and live a simple life due to frail health.

Thetoad
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:46 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby Thetoad » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Thanks again for the replies. Food for thought, so to speak. Thinking of the Konsyl D, I have always been confused by the fact that it can cause constipation and also diarrhoea! My theory now is that if too much water is absorbed, the stools will become hard to pass. If any water is left, the result could be loose stools. So maybe it's a matter of finding a balance as well as eating sensibly? I agree that watching the sugary food would help, especially after losing my gallbladder.
My plan now is to consult a dietician with knowledge of the effects of abdominal surgery. But I suppose the important thing is that I'm 'getting rid of it now.' The bowel cancer surgery was an extended right hemicolectomy, so quite a length must have been taken, which may be relevant?
Best wishes.
Emergency extended right hemicolectomy November 2013.
Complete blockage, small perforation.
Stage 2a.
T3N0M0
22 Lymph nodes clear.
No bag.
All CEA tests, CT scans and follow up colonoscopy ok.
Now on yearly appts and 6 monthly CEA tests.
Large incisional hernia repaired with mesh Nov. 2014.
Cellulitus bottom of scar.
CEA 1.4 on 28/7/17
Just passed 48 months since surgery! (November 13, 2013.) All good so far.
27/5/17. Gallbladder removed, open surgery.
Pleasing consultation Feb. 2017
CEA 1.7 on 16/11/17

AbbyDoo
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:25 am
Location: So.Ca.

Re: Will my BM's ever return to normal?

Postby AbbyDoo » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:14 am

WIll my BMs ever return to normal?
Now that's the million dollar question. I'm 15 months out from ileostomy reversal and ask myself that question all the time.
I'm sorta a feared to try new foods still. I stayed on a row residue diet for about six months after surgery and introduce new foods slowly and one at a time so I know what to avoid. There are still things like corn,nuts and carrots that I'm afraid of.
My surgeon wanted me to try to keep it as natural as possible so I avoided the Metamucil, I was eating Imodium every day but have found a 1/2 of one every other day seems to do the trick. Maybe go back to eating foods that are easy to diagest and then start adding more foods slowly. IF you keep a log your new Dietitian will be able to help you faster.
53 yrs old
4/30/15 colonoscopy Mass found
5/21/15 staged 3 C rectal cancer
7/3/15 finished xeloda and radiation 28 rounds
9/30/15 LAR
10/29/15 picc line installed
11/2/15 start chemo 5 fu Oxaliplatin
3/7/16 Finish Chemo
4/29/16 Ileostomy Reversal.
7/13/16 colonoscopy clear.
CRC survivors know there Sh%t


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