Non-narcotic pain relievers?

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beth568
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Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby beth568 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:38 am

I've got an appt tomorrow (Tuesday) and would like to go in armed with some specific questions. I'm hoping you guys have some recommendations for me.

I am still working out the best way to manage post-LAR bowel issues. I seem to have established a pattern in which I can go 2-3 days with no bathroom activity (or maybe just a few trips, nothing eventful), after which I have a clustering day that leaves me very unhappy. I can live with multiple trips to the bathroom, but the irritation and resulting pain is really getting to me. Calmoseptine helps most of the time, but every few weeks I'll end up so sore that it hurts to walk. The discomfort usually peaks in the evening, at which point I can slather on the Calmoseptine and take a Vicodin and get through the night, with significant relief in the morning. Vicodin works really well for me - great pain relief. Sometimes, though, I've got to deal with this pain in the middle of the day, and I can't take something that makes me sleepy.

I'm talking about situations where ibuprofen or acetaminophen just don't do the job. I want to ask my doctor for an alternative, and I find that it works best for me if I can ask about something specific, rather than just going in there with a generic request for help. I know some people have good results with Toradol. Any other ideas?

Of course, the longer term question is how and whether I want to continue this cycle, but for now I'm not quite ready to give up on finding a bowel management strategy that will work (and yes, I've tried the MD Anderson protocol).
Beth
dx @age 42, Jan '11 RC, T2or3NxM0 (stage IIIA/IIIB)
6 wks chemorad Feb - Mar '11
LAR 5/23/11, staged T2N1bM0 (2 of 15 nodes positive)
8 rounds FOLFOX, June-Oct. 2011
clear scans Nov '11, May '12, Nov '12, May '13
http://www.mysemicolon.net

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chrissyrice
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby chrissyrice » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:08 am

Beth, I tried using Advil instead of the narcotics.

But, then my stomach reacted badly and so I too am searching for some kind of pain reliever that won't make me HIGH or wreck my stomach. Hope you get some answers.

I still use A&D ointment for butt burn. Seems to work good for me during the day.
DX 10-31-09 Surgery 12-1-09 Sigmoid Colon
Stage IIIb T3,N2,MX; Chemo Feb 2010-Aug 2010; 4 rounds Folfox; 8 rounds 5FU +LV
12/2010 PET/CT Scan, Cancer Free
7/2012 CT Scan NED 2 years
10/2013 NED 3 years
8/2014 NED 4 years
Recurrence 6/2015: iliac lymph node(s)
8/2015 Surgery: 3 cm tumor removed+iliac artery graft
3/2016 CT Scan Stable
6/2016 Stable
9/2016 Stable
12/2016 Stable
3/2017 Stable
Recurrence 6/2017
12/2017 Surgery removed all cancer w/ clean margins
07-27-2018 Cancer-free for 7 months

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BrownBagger
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby BrownBagger » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:23 am

Tramadol
Eric, 58
Dx: 3/09, Stage 4 RC
Recurrences: (ongoing, lung, bronchial cavity, ribs)
Major Ops: 6/ RFA: 3 /bronchoscopies: 8
Pelvic radiation: 5 wks. Bronchial radiation—brachytheray: 3 treatments
Chemo Rounds (career):136
Current Chemo Cocktail: Xeloda & Erbitux & Irinotecan biweekly
Current Cocktail; On the Wagon (mostly)
Bicycle miles post-dx 10,477
Motto: Live your life like it's going to be a long one, because it just might, and then you'll be glad you did.

KimT
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby KimT » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:25 am

I cut my vicoden in half when I need pain relief but don't want to feel sleepy. I take it with 800mg of ibuprofen. That works pretty good in getting my pain down to a level I can tolerate. I have taken tramadol but understand it is a narcotic like pain reliever. You may still get sleepy from taking it. I didn't but my aunt does get sleepy with it. And I didn't think it worked as well as a narcotic. It didn't work any better than tylenol or ibuprofen for me. You can ask about tylenol with codeine which is a milder narcotic. It might work better as a pain reliever during the day and cause less drowsiness.
2/10 dx colon cancer
right hemicolectomy 3/19/10
Stage 2a 0/43 nodes
Lynch syndrome
3/14/10 colon resection/ removal of metal clips
Nov 11 dx ovarian cancer

SkiFletch
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby SkiFletch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:58 am

Sitz baths on the "cleanout" days will help too Beth. I rarely get cleanout days, but when I do, I find myself showering a lot and cleaning out my rear helps. It's useful that we have shower facilities at work in case I'm stuck. Sitz baths will help on-top of using wipees of course. And don't bother with that adult crap, go straight for the baby wipes. I also remember some folks around here talking about certain creams with some drug in them (maybe lidocaine) commonly used for radiation burns. Maybe someone could post that info, or the search function might turn it up. Something more high-test than calmoseptine? Lastly remember that not all narcotics are created equal both in terms of effectiveness and side effects. While vicodin (hydrocodone/acetomenaphin I think...) causes side effects but works on pain, perhaps a different narcotic would kill the pain without the sleepiness for you? Also have you tried combining say a half-dose of vicodin with say some ibuprophen and/or naproxen? Might provide that side effect balance you're looking for day-time relief
11/13/09 5cm Stage IV 9/25 lymph nodes w/2cm peritoneal met at 29 YoA
12/15/09 LA right hemi-colectomy
6/16/10 Folfox FINISHED
8/10/10 Prophylactic HIPEC
10/9/10 got Married :D
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adina91
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby adina91 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:57 pm

That is so weird! I am experiencing EXACTLY the same issues right now and my PCP is hesitant to renew my vicodin scrip. I feel like saying "Look at my medical history!!! I am not abusing these pills!!!!" but I think the stigma attached to opiate pain relievers has really freaked the doctors out. I feel like because of the few doctors that over-prescribe, there are many that under-prescribe. Some days I am fine...I don't even need the calmoseptine and advil is fine. But, others, I need a vicodin, calmoseptine, a bath and a heating pad and I guess I don't see that there is anything wrong with that unless it becomes abuse.

However, I have heard realy good things about tramadol as well. My mom takes it for her various ailments, so my next step will be to ask about that as an alternative. I think that unless your doctor has experienced the burning, pain and discomfort themselves, they really have NO idea how awful it really is. Let us know what you and your doc decide!
Adina 42 yo, mom of 2 sons (5,9)
11/2009 - DX-2B CC-Sigmoid resect/colostomy
Lynch Synd MSH2
1/2010 - FLOX chemo
5/2010 - Subtotal colectomy/hyster/ileostomy
Stage 3A - 1/42 LN +
8/2010 - Chemo done
10/18/2010 - ileostomy takedown
2010 - 2015 - NED
5/1/15 - "suspicious" area in liver on CT
5/14/15 - follow up PET says no metastatic disease
6/19/15 - MRI - NED!

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eitter
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby eitter » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:07 pm

adina91 wrote:That is so weird! I am experiencing EXACTLY the same issues right now and my PCP is hesitant to renew my vicodin scrip. I feel like saying "Look at my medical history!!! I am not abusing these pills!!!!" but I think the stigma attached to opiate pain relievers has really freaked the doctors out. I feel like because of the few doctors that over-prescribe, there are many that under-prescribe. Some days I am fine...I don't even need the calmoseptine and advil is fine. But, others, I need a vicodin, calmoseptine, a bath and a heating pad and I guess I don't see that there is anything wrong with that unless it becomes abuse.

However, I have heard realy good things about tramadol as well. My mom takes it for her various ailments, so my next step will be to ask about that as an alternative. I think that unless your doctor has experienced the burning, pain and discomfort themselves, they really have NO idea how awful it really is. Let us know what you and your doc decide!


This is when you go see a Pain management Doctor, EVERYONE listen up, our surgeons are NOT experts in pain. I was JUST like you all and my doctors also got to the point of get over it and actually my Oncologist referred me to an EXCELLANT pain management doctor, this is what they are experts at. And NO ONE here should feel guilty about using pain meds and I was guility of that until I met my pain management doctor. He is very strict and I have to sign a contract not to doctor shop, use the same pharmacy and I get drug tested. He can lose his license if he allows his patients to run rampent. There are SO many options to relive pain and this is where all of us need to go!
Blessings,
Liz DENNIS
Tempe,AZ
DX 05/06 Rectal
6 Weeks radiation with 5FU
LAR 10/06 Stage III
Temp Ileo, reversal failed in 05/07 after 1m in hospital came out with a permanent colostomy
http://www.runlizrun.com

esk2poo
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby esk2poo » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:33 pm

Liz,
Well said. Pain management doctors are the way to go. I myself had an opiate addiction for 4 years ago where I had a doctor giving them out like candy for my back. Went to rehab to get off of them. I often wonder if 4 years of taking hundreds of pills a month caused the CC in my cecum but whatever. I was clean for 3.5 years and then surgery. It is a lot different now. I do not take pils but on a patch and actually looking to taper down. Not looking for high, just relief. My PM specialast understands that and is wonderful.

Good luck on finding your relief to get through the day. It is a real pain in the ass. Pun intended.

Allen
Dx 8/23/11 stage 3b crc
3 of 11 LN's
resection 9/15/11
folfox start 10/31/11 12 sessions
De-ported 6/2012
clear CT 7/2012
Clear colonoscopy 9/2012

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BrownBagger
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby BrownBagger » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Tramadol doesn't make me drowsy. It has the opposite effect for me. I don't get a tolerance to it and no constipation.
Eric, 58
Dx: 3/09, Stage 4 RC
Recurrences: (ongoing, lung, bronchial cavity, ribs)
Major Ops: 6/ RFA: 3 /bronchoscopies: 8
Pelvic radiation: 5 wks. Bronchial radiation—brachytheray: 3 treatments
Chemo Rounds (career):136
Current Chemo Cocktail: Xeloda & Erbitux & Irinotecan biweekly
Current Cocktail; On the Wagon (mostly)
Bicycle miles post-dx 10,477
Motto: Live your life like it's going to be a long one, because it just might, and then you'll be glad you did.

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raym
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby raym » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:54 pm

I have similar issues where a periodic clean out just wipes me out, makes my entire body sore as well as some bowel soreness. I take 3 Advil (200mg each), not sure what dose you have been taking. It does take awhile (30+ minutes) for me to feel the effect but it helps alot. At times I will also precharge with Advil (similar to before a long bike ride) at the onset when things start going bad down there.

I have occasionally taken Hyrdocodone/Acetaminphen but even half a pill wipes me out, though I don't recall the pill strength. In general Acetaminophen alone does nothing for me.

I have also found the hot tub/spa does help alot when things are just sore (muscle aches).
3/11 IIIC +/FOLFOX
4/12 HIPEC
6/12 Chmo/Rad
9/12 XELIRI+Avast/Zltra
9/13 Plvic Absc,stpd chemo
11/13 Tumr rmvd frm Lap Port incis
12/13 Xeloda
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3/14 Irinotecan
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ams5796
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby ams5796 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:44 pm

Beth, You're right, the real question for me is the long term bowel issues. I also go every three days and when I go it is a clustering episode that lasts for hours and results in pain in my rectum and an overall lethargic feeling. I take a percocet after the episode and it does help. I've been doing this for four years. I'd love to know how anyone manages to avoid this cycle that we're in. When I say I've tried everything I really mean EVERYTHING, and nothing has worked for me.

Ann
Stage 3C (or 4?) Rectal Cancer 01/07
2/10 lung mets
3/11 VATS
6/11 VATS
7/13 lung met
2/14 SBRT
NED 8/14
5/17 scan and MRI found treated spine met

adina91
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby adina91 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Liz - Yes! I am definitely going to get myself a referral to a pain management doc. I have been thinking about it for awhile and you just gave me the push to do it without feeling guilty as though somehow its something I am not doing correctly and that's why I'm in pain. Thank you!
Adina 42 yo, mom of 2 sons (5,9)
11/2009 - DX-2B CC-Sigmoid resect/colostomy
Lynch Synd MSH2
1/2010 - FLOX chemo
5/2010 - Subtotal colectomy/hyster/ileostomy
Stage 3A - 1/42 LN +
8/2010 - Chemo done
10/18/2010 - ileostomy takedown
2010 - 2015 - NED
5/1/15 - "suspicious" area in liver on CT
5/14/15 - follow up PET says no metastatic disease
6/19/15 - MRI - NED!

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pollo65
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby pollo65 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:39 pm

I really hate to think I am developmentally challenged, but I thought I was alone with the clustering b.m.s and the total wipeout. I haven't taken anything but Advil which is beginning to bother my stomach. I do use my beloved toilet seat bidet, calmoseptine and and even hemmorhoid medication for pain. I hate to say this but I am glad to find out I am not alone.
pollo 65
CC 1/6/09
r. hemi-colectomy 1/7/09
32Ln biopsied, 28 positive
met to aorta
chemo 12 rounds
done 9/09 3 scans clear
1/11 1 met to aorta
micro cluster to peritoneum
4/11 / 9/11 scan clear
4/12 scan clear
10/12 scan clear
Iri+avastin
chemo break

disco nap
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby disco nap » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:47 pm

Tramacet. I think this is the acetominophen version of Tramadol, so it avoids all the issues that come with ibuprofen (irritated stomach lining, blood thinning)
DX July 2 '10 CC Stage IIIC, 11/18 nodes+
Right Hemi July 6 '10
Folfox: Aug 17'10 - Feb 17'11
Mar 2012: Lynch Syndrome MLH1
"Declared well" and been well ever since.
Update: Oct 2019 - still NED.

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eitter
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Re: Non-narcotic pain relievers?

Postby eitter » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:58 pm

adina91 wrote:Liz - Yes! I am definitely going to get myself a referral to a pain management doc. I have been thinking about it for awhile and you just gave me the push to do it without feeling guilty as though somehow its something I am not doing correctly and that's why I'm in pain. Thank you!


I remember my first year I hated taking pain meds and I had a son addicted to drugs and I felt I would also get addicted. Then several people told me that in order to heal, breathe right and function you do need pain meds. And then I started to look at it diferently. Then I fell into the trap again when my surgeon and oncologist hesitated to refill my pain meds and I felt like a drug addict again. But once I went to the Pain Management Dr. I learned I AM NOT a drug addict and I am NOT crazy! And I am FAR from being addicted to drugs and he would not let me get addicted!!!!

I get upset with some family and friends that question me taking pain meds and I get sensitive about it. But I have been told i will more then likely have chronic pain for the rest of my life and again like I said my Pain Mgt Dr told me he would not let me get addicted, so I get reassured! But it is hard sometimes and so many people do not understand the world of chronic pain and I never understood it myself until I live it now! I think I am going to research some alternatives this year, like accupuncture and herbal methods, just dabble in it and play with it and see if I get any relief from them.

But in case I did not drive home my point, NO ONE here should feel ashamed to take pain meds!!!!
Blessings,
Liz DENNIS
Tempe,AZ
DX 05/06 Rectal
6 Weeks radiation with 5FU
LAR 10/06 Stage III
Temp Ileo, reversal failed in 05/07 after 1m in hospital came out with a permanent colostomy
http://www.runlizrun.com


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