VEGF and TGF beta 1

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beach sunrise
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby beach sunrise » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm

Well, knock one ca pathway out and it finds another to make vessels. VEGF plasma and serum are high now and so is TGF beta 1. Goodness.
Does anyone take/have taken any supplements you have found to lower it? I am now on IP-6 for it, upped the milk thistle and also added iron c for RBC count. I really don't want to go on avastin but it may be in my future.
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
8 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 4 more no oxa
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

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GrouseMan
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: SE Michigan USA

Re: VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby GrouseMan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:45 pm

I wouldn't disparage Avastin too much. I am surprised that you were not put on it at the time you had FOLFOX. Its side effects really are very minor when compared to the Oxaliplatin, 5-FU or Irinotecan. When My wife was on Irinotecan, Avastin and Erbitux without the 5-FU she thought that was a piece of cake. Note she had been getting Avastin for three years straight in combination with other things. At most it slightly raised her BP. Caused a little blood in her nose when she blew it in the morning. Prevention of blood vessel formation in tumors is what Avastin is for. The last Trial she was on was for a Hopped up Anti VEGF drug I believe it was. Didn't help any better than Avastin but that's the way of clinical trials some times.

Good Luck

GrouseMan
DW 53 dx Jun 2013
CT mets Liver Spleen lung. IVb CEA~110
Jul 2013 Sig Resct
8/13 FolFox,Avastin 12Tx mild sfx, Ongoing 5-FU Avastin every 3 wks.
CEA: good marker
7/7/14 CT Can't see the spleen Mets.
8/16/15 CEA Up, CT new abdominal mets. Iri, 5-FU, Avastin every 2 wks.
1/16 Iri, Erbitux and likely Avastin (Trial) CEA going >.
1/17 CEA up again dropped from Trial, Mets growth 4-6 mm in abdomen
5/2/17 Failed second trial, Hospitalized 15 days 5/11. Home Hospice 5/26, at peace 6/4/2017

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beach sunrise
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby beach sunrise » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:08 pm

I never knew about Avastin, onc never mentioned it. Just ran across it a few mths ago (ironic).
VEGF has dbl'd in 3 mths, plasma level is at 184pg/mL, serum level 232pg/mL, TGF beta 1 is at 18150pg/mL (up from 2317pg/mL)
Good to know about bp problems. If I take Avastin I should be OK as my bp runs pretty low.
Other than those 2 panels all else is really good except the darn CEA.
ND wants to try IP-6 for 6 wks then talk about Avastin some more. I will let my new onc know about bloodwork findings next week. If it ain't one thing it's another!
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
8 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 4 more no oxa
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

zephyr
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:31 am

Re: VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby zephyr » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:37 pm

My VEGF is way high after taking a chemical break that includes an Avastin break. I'm taking Honokiol and VascuStatin to target VEGF but I won't have more bloodwork for another 2-3 weeks so I can't tell you how well it worked. Maybe ask your ND about them. If you take one or both, know that they can cause loose stools so start slow and increase gradually. You might also consider picking up Eat to Beat Disease by William Li, MD. There's a good explanation of angiogenesis and foods that provide a natural defense against it.

Edited to add: if you go on Avastin, keep an eye on your BP, as others have noted. My BP was always very low all my life but after about 1 year on Avastin, it started to suddenly rise. I ended up going on a mild BP med that had to be increased 3 times. Also be more careful about injuries because Avastin will make you bleed more, plus it will take a lot longer to heal. If you need to have any elective surgery, I think you need to be off Avastin for 28 days because of the bleeding issue.
Nov-2009 Early stage CRC found during routine colonoscopy
2010, 2011, 2014 F/U colonoscopies, all clear
Jun-2016 CRC during followup colonoscopy, surgery, Stage 4, KRAS, MSS, inoperable lung mets
Aug-2016-May-2018 Folfox, 5FU & Avastin, 5FU, Folfiri & Cyramza
Aug/Sep-2018 YAG laser surgeries (Germany), 11 nodules removed
Nov-2018 clean CT scan
Mar-2019 New lung nodules
Apr-2019 Dec-2020 Xeloda/Avastin, SBRT, cont. Xeloda/Avastin
Dec-2020 Progression, considering all options
Mar-2021 Forfiri/Avastin

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby beach sunrise » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:21 pm

Hi zephyr, thank you so much for the reply. I do take vascustatin. It is in my notes now about the honokiol, thanks. Another member told me their ND had them on andrographis, so thats in my notes too right now. The ND did mention the same book you have. I will order it today.
If you think about it and want to share please let me know about your bloodwork. I also have bloodwork coming up in 2 wks to see about IP6 working or not.
Hoping to prolong avastin treatment but pretty sure its in my future at some point. I am working my butt off to prolong and be as healthy as can be for surgery when it shows up on a scan (hopefully I'll be a candidate for surgery). My surgeon is not a fan of exploratory surgery unless an emergency. My argument was "This is an emergency." So, for now I guess all I can do is keep hunting it down and beat it back as best I can. Expand the bloodwork and keep looking (combining rp1954 and CRguy here).
I read about mini trampoline excercising can raise WBC's and help with lymph drainage so got one of those. I am so limited with things I can do because of the surgery I had. No more crossfit/bootcamp gym or krav and man do I miss it terribly! I need to find a good yoga type instructor I think. Anyway, I'll stop rambling :)
8/19 RC CEA 82.6 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
Surg 1/20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
FOLFOX
8 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 4 more no oxa
7/20 CEA 11.1, 8.8
8/20 CEA 7.8
9/20 CEA 8.8, 9, 8.6
10/20 CEA 8.1
11/20 CEA 8's
12/20 CEA 8's & 9's
ADAPT+++ TM drug
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1 , KRAS Q61H
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"

zephyr
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:31 am

Re: VEGF and TGF beta 1

Postby zephyr » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:59 pm

beach sunrise wrote:If you think about it and want to share please let me know about your bloodwork. I also have bloodwork coming up in 2 wks to see about IP6 working or not.

I'll PM you.
Nov-2009 Early stage CRC found during routine colonoscopy
2010, 2011, 2014 F/U colonoscopies, all clear
Jun-2016 CRC during followup colonoscopy, surgery, Stage 4, KRAS, MSS, inoperable lung mets
Aug-2016-May-2018 Folfox, 5FU & Avastin, 5FU, Folfiri & Cyramza
Aug/Sep-2018 YAG laser surgeries (Germany), 11 nodules removed
Nov-2018 clean CT scan
Mar-2019 New lung nodules
Apr-2019 Dec-2020 Xeloda/Avastin, SBRT, cont. Xeloda/Avastin
Dec-2020 Progression, considering all options
Mar-2021 Forfiri/Avastin


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