The Colon Club

I’ve been on and off this board for 10 years, and it has been very helpful and comforting to share our journeys, but this thread contains some of the worst comments I’ve ever seen. To question the integrity of Dr. Fauci and the racist China virus comment?! Ignorance and stupidity in full display.

Hi Roadrunner ,

I think the article you linked in helped me clarify my concerns . On one hand we have a process that has undergone clinical trials on the other other hand is scientific opinion !
For me I would rather stick with the evidence of trials . I get the concern of vaccines for the majority but honestly we buckled under the flu jab this year here and given the time constraints I think they would struggle with the logistics .

The emails have already been sent cancelling the second dose here so I guess it’s a work in progress . I was speaking to two people this morning and both said the system in place took around 50 mins for one individual to get vaccinated by the time they stood in each line to fill in forms and then another for the actual vaccine !! Yikes !

Maybe they will improve with time !

Take care everyone ,

Stu

Stu:

Saw an interesting report this morning that intersects with our discussion above. The US FDA disagrees with the UK approach on the grounds that it is not supported by the trial data—not that it won’t work, just that there was not sufficient evidence that it would—and noted that most of the Moderna volunteers who showed a strong response after one dose (as mentioned in the article I linked above) weren’t followed up long enough to ensure that their antibody response would be long-lasting. So the US position, at least, appears to be to continue with the two-shot regimen.

Sort of. The vaccine program director announced that the US is considering cutting the dose amount by 50% for those in the 18-55 age range. This also does not seem to have been studied, so it’s hard to know what to make of that.

Perhaps both the UK approach and this new US idea just reflect political pressure, a general fact that initial vaccine program designs are usually designed with both “belt and suspenders” built in, and difficulties getting the vaccine distributions programs growing while the disease ravages populations and economies. Whatever it is, it’s not confidence-inspiring.

Very interesting indeed Roadrunner. So they may take a risk but with a younger , possibly less vulnerable group !
I did hear that the Drs who looked at the data have made a statement . They have drawn their conclusions from looking at the trials raw data not its published data . However I think that’s hard for the general public to find .

It is a departure from the safeguards of the normal processes and as indicate a bit of a political squeeze in the midst .
We are back in full lockdown as half our transmissions are the new variant. Yikes !
Very interesting discussion all round and helping me slowly unpack it all . Still don’t know what way I will go . Maybe take the first dose and see what unfolds . Not keen on the second dose being from a different manufacturer. That has been raised here too .
Living and learning as ever .
Take care ,
Stu

I got mine first dose today as I work in the medical field. I called my onc as I was taking Xeloda, Avastin, and the Moderna all in the same day. He reported I was good to go. Bottoms up with the triple combo. I am grateful. B

Choosing to get the vaccine is a personal decision and there is no one right answer for everyone.

Personally I'm not getting it yet but would never try and stop anyone else.

I can link articles of anyone cares but this is my current understanding.

Technically I don't think these vaccines meet definition of vaccine. When you take the pfizer or moderna vaccine is doesn't offer you immunity from infection (no evidence it does and was acknowledged by FDA review board). Covid-19 is not a virus but the disease caused by the sars cov2 virus. These vaccines are effective at preventing symptoms of infection. It provides immunity to your lower respiratory tract but the virus can still take hold in upper respiratory tract. You should get sick or show symptoms are getting vaccine but there is no evidence it stops the transmission of it to others.

Yes they went through all the steps normal vaccines do at accelerated rate but they don't have as much data as normal vaccines do. The safety data included only 38,000 people I think for pfizer vaccine because of deadline to submit that information. That could be why they didn't see any allergic reactions during study. Those allergic reactions are also pretty rare.

If you read the FAQ on government websites the answers are mostly "we don't know for sure"

So long story short it's to early for me. That said if I was in groups that had high rates of severe infections and I knew the stats to that I would be more inclined I think.

As far as Dr Fauci goes I do think he made a big mistake. I read an interview where he said it thinks 90% of people will need to get vaccinated for herd immunity ( again no evidence it stops virus infection or transmission to others so this statement period makes no sense) however he gave lower numbers in beginning because he didn't think the american people were ready to hear what he really thought. I guess I don't like the idea of being misled because someone doesn't think I can handle the truth.

Great news Behconsult . Hope it gives you immunity really quickly .
Stu

Hi Usmccolon ,

I think people will have to go with what they are comfortable with at the end of the day . It’s individuals who have to live with the consequences.
Your point about transmission is interesting. We have a faster rate of transmission at the moment due to the new variant.
We shall see as it unfolds .
I am leaning towards taking the first dose and evaluate as I go along . Certainly not keen to add a vaccine from a different company for my second dose . That’s raising alarm bells !
Anyway take care ,
Stu

Hi Stu,

For sure it's an individual decision. If you do get vaccine both doses have to be from same company. They actually give you a card I think so when you go back they give you right one. It's important to remember these only have emergency authorization meaning they don't have a lot of info so you really need to take it as it was tested. I know in UK they are talking about spacing out doses longer to get more people first shot. Problem is they weren't tested that way so no one knows how that will effect it's efficacy.

One other thing I found really "interesting" was the comments from FDA board on the moderna vaccine. Again remembering we don't really know everything yet about these vaccines and they are emergency use vaccines so by definition haven't been fully approved and vetted. The FDA said that the benefits of the moderna vaccine outweigh ANY risk of taking it. Again to me personally that's kind of a scary statement. As with all things death is always a risk in anything no matter how smaller the risk is. I guess I personally feel that statement is a bit strong.

Also you really have to read these articles like a lawyer lol. You'll find some that say there is no evidence of any long term side effects. Yes it's a true statement but what they don't tell you is that there is no evidence either way lol. Now pfizer and moderna are giving the real vaccine to the placebo group and they won't really be able to determine long term side effects since the future data they are still collecting will be tainted. How do you compare long term effects when even the placebo group got the real vaccine?

Again I'm not saying the vaccine isn't safe or that no one should get it but I do feel that people should be told the truth to make an informed decision for themselves to determine if known and unknown risks are worth the potential benefits. Remember we don't even know how long the effects of vaccine last.

All that said before getting it I would suggest asking your Dr how many people with compromised immune systems were part of study. Vaccines work by creating an immunological response.

Immunocompromised people were excluded from the trials. That said, there is a very long history of vaccine use in immunocompromised individuals. Live, attenuated vaccines have in some cases caused problems for immunocompromised recipients, but not “killed” or inactivated vaccines, like the adenovirus vector COVID vaccines. The Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccines don’t even contain dead virus of any sort, but instead only some viral RNA. Thus, as expected, they are associated only with the typical (nearly always mild) side effects of any vaccine, none of which will likely be enhanced in an immunocompromised patient. There is thus no reason to think immunocompromised patients have any enhanced safety risk from the mRNA or adenovirus vector COVID vaccines.

Efficacy, or course, is another matter. That will depend on each person’s immune system. This is why cancer patients and others with immunocompromise should consult with their doctors about taking the COVID vaccine. My opinion is that the vaccines will still be a good choice for most people, including immunocompromised people, because the alternative—getting, or at least high risk of getting, COVID—is quite bad, especially for an immunicompromised person. Remember that if there is seroconversion, even a lesser response may well protect against the worst outcomes (severe disease and death). In my view, the main reason to talk to your doctor about the vaccine if you are immunocompromised is to determine whether you should get your antibody titer tested after taking it, and/or whether you should continue to observe restrictions on your activities and contacts despite taking it, due to efficacy worries.

In any case, I will take the strongest possible vaccine I can get as early as I can get it.

I’m part of the AstraZeneca vaccine trial. I asked my oncologist at MSK if there was any problem with this and he said no, and gave me the go ahead. Had the first shot, had some mild side effects the first 24 hours and that was it. Will be going for the second shot next week. Hopefully I got the vaccine and not the placebo. I’ve been cancer free for 10 years, so clearly my case is different from those still in the fight.

Received my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine on January 4th. Slight soreness in my arm, no other side effects. Will be starting chemo on the 12th. Second shot on the 25th. I am an infection control nurse. So happy I was able to get the vaccine, for my patients, my parents, and myself.

Found this today for any fellow Texans.

Interactive map of Covid-19 Vaccine Providers

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/web ... fe4a05920a

Usmccolon wrote:Hi Stu,

For sure it's an individual decision. If you do get vaccine both doses have to be from same company. They actually give you a card I think so when you go back they give you right one. It's important to remember these only have emergency authorization meaning they don't have a lot of info so you really need to take it as it was tested. I know in UK they are talking about spacing out doses longer to get more people first shot. Problem is they weren't tested that way so no one knows how that will effect it's efficacy.

One other thing I found really "interesting" was the comments from FDA board on the moderna vaccine. Again remembering we don't really know everything yet about these vaccines and they are emergency use vaccines so by definition haven't been fully approved and vetted. The FDA said that the benefits of the moderna vaccine outweigh ANY risk of taking it. Again to me personally that's kind of a scary statement. As with all things death is always a risk in anything no matter how smaller the risk is. I guess I personally feel that statement is a bit strong.

Also you really have to read these articles like a lawyer lol. You'll find some that say there is no evidence of any long term side effects. Yes it's a true statement but what they don't tell you is that there is no evidence either way lol. Now pfizer and moderna are giving the real vaccine to the placebo group and they won't really be able to determine long term side effects since the future data they are still collecting will be tainted. How do you compare long term effects when even the placebo group got the real vaccine?

Again I'm not saying the vaccine isn't safe or that no one should get it but I do feel that people should be told the truth to make an informed decision for themselves to determine if known and unknown risks are worth the potential benefits. Remember we don't even know how long the effects of vaccine last.

All that said before getting it I would suggest asking your Dr how many people with compromised immune systems were part of study. Vaccines work by creating an immunological response.

While I agree it is important to gather facts and be informed- By now we have several months of data on the trial participants and more to come while we wait our turn. To me, the terrible outcomes we have actually seen (mass death, heart damage, long haul covid, etc) from the virus itself, are far more frightening than a very very slight risk from a vaccine, that will be the key to allowing us to actually enjoy living again.
After weighing it out, the virus is the real risk IMO
Ksue