Zantac and Colon Cancer

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stu
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby stu » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:52 pm

I find this discussion most interesting but also quite frightening in equal measures . I had never imagined it was outsourced , but I guess it makes sense and it is also not a big leap to think of shortcuts being taken ! Yikes .
Stu
supporter to my mum who lives a great life despite a difficult diagnosis
stage4 2009 significant spread to liver
2010 colon /liver resection
chemo following recurrence
73% of liver removed
enjoying life treatment free
2016 lung resection
Oct 2017 nice clear scan . Two lung nodules disappeared
Oct 2018. Another clear scan .

Claudine
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:41 pm
Location: Montana

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby Claudine » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:58 pm

One of my friend has thyroid problems. She was on a medication that worked great, then suddenly she started having problems again. Looking into it, she learned that the manufacturing, which was originally all made in Germany (I think), had been outsourced to China; the active ingredient is the same, but some of the other components are different and are responsible for the problem... So this Zantac issue isn't isolated.
Last edited by Claudine on Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wife of Dx 04/18 (51 yo). MSS, KRAS G12A
No primary (involuted?)
Lytic tumor L4 vertebrae, EBRT 04/18, SBRT 02/19
Resect small intestine 05/18 (no cancer - Crohn's)
Failed adjuvant Xelox
Folfiri + Avastin 03/19 to 01/20
6.7 cm left adrenal mass 03/19, successful resection 02/20
CEA since 03/19: high 58, low 3.2, now 4.4
Scan 03/19: Multiple small lung nodules up to 5mm
Scan 12/19: one 1mm stable nodule
PET 04/20 uptake by L4
L3-L4-L5 fusion surgery and residual tumor removal 05/20

Deb m
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby Deb m » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:59 pm

Grouse Man,

I always find your posts very interesting. I do agree with you that most of our human aliments are genetic. However, do you think that perhaps these drugs, foods, pesticides, preservatives, (and the list goes on and on) is causing these abnormal genetic mutations? Obviously our human bodies were not formed to consume these things that are not "Natural" anymore, or be exposed to some environmental things that we now are, and out cells, body systems just don't know how to handle it and everything begins to go haywire. I believe just getting out of bed and going thru your daily routine of the day exposes you, perhaps on a very small scale to many factors that sooner or later contribute in some way to cancer and other medical illnesses. In today's world, I just don't see how you avoid it. What I don't understand is what causes some of these genetic mutations, cancers to be hereditary, that are proven to be passed on to offspring and others who get the same kind of cancer not. Does that mean there are genetic factors that happen your born with that have nothing to do with what you eat or are exposed to over your life? All this genetic stuff that they test for now just blows my mind and I'm just not sure what to make of it. With these law suits, how on earth can they possible prove that the individuals cancer was specifically caused by the product or whatever they were exposed to? How did the guy who won his suit against round up weed killer prove that his

cancer was caused by that specific product and that he may of gotten it even without being exposed to that product?

I think I missed my calling. I would love to be on research teams studying all this. My son has taken up the interest and is studying medical bio chemistry and finds it fastening.

I thank you for you time over the years chiming in and helping everybody out. It's all way over my head like probably most others on this board.! Deb

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CRguy
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby CRguy » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:17 pm

GrouseMan wrote:Just some history. The active ingredient in the drug is safe. Its the adulterant in the API that is the problem here and I believe this was introduced by sloppy manufacturing in facilities that were not as carefully supervised by the FDA in countries that make a habit of flouting regulatory rules.
Grouse Man

Thank you once again Grouse Man for your insights AND ......
for being much more polite than I have been in the past regarding certain countries which make a habit of flouting regulatory rules :shock: :mrgreen:

I regularly review notifications from FDA, Health Canada and securingindustry
It is scary sometimes what ends up in the supposedly legitimate drug market from offshore imports, not to mention the deliberate
adulterations and profiteering by corrupt "institutions" and countries.

Caveat emptor !

Harmony
CRguy
Caregiver x 4
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
13 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

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GrouseMan
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: SE Michigan USA

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby GrouseMan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:10 pm

Claudine wrote:One of my friend has thyroid problems. She was on a medication that worked great, then suddenly she started having problems again. Looking into it, she learned that the manufacturing, which was originally all made in Germany (I think), had been outsourced to China; the active ingredient is the same, but some of the other components are different and are responsible for the problem... So this Zantac issue isn't isolated.


Yes - this has occurred on several occasions. One that comes to mind was when Dilantin had an issue several years ago. People that had taken it for years suddenly had issues with it. Only one manufacturer. Issue was the crystal form of the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient (API). The fellow that was in charge of the process for many years retired I believe it was and his replacement didn't follow the recipe for crystallization to the letter as his predecessor had. You see this step was actually a trade secret. The particular crystal form has a lot to do with how the drug is absorbed in the system. Formulation was a bit off then, and it was less effective than previous lots from prior years. They had to bring the retiree back to show them again how its done.

I suspect something similar might have been the case with your friends medication. Formulated slightly differently. Not adulterated or badly manufactured perhaps but the formulation might have had slightly different characteristics than the previous medication once the process was transferred to a different facility. In the case of Dilantin it was a particular crystal structure needed, and it could only be obtained by a particular process. All chemical Analysis of the API would have looked identical to the that of the API made previously. It was the Physical state of the chemical compound that was the issue. This physical orientation in the crystal structure can had effects on its solubility. I have to tell you as a chemist we sometimes make very active potent compounds that are about as soluble as brick dust. They don't make very good drugs and we have to result to all sorts of methods to make them absorbable in ones digestive track. Sometimes we end up just going back to the drawing board because we can't get enough of the drug into its targeted cells. Coming up with marketable drugs is no small task. And having several to choose from in a particular class of drugs is good, because one manufactures drug might work better in one group of patients than that of another. I could go on and on about this sort of thing! But don't want to get off track.

Suffice it to say. If you don't have to take a drug stay away from it. If you do - its likely doing you much more good than harm overall, except I have to say in the case of anti-cancer drugs. These are the drugs we can't test on non symptomatic people. Ethically we can't give an anti-cancer drug to a healthy person! They will harm folks that don't need them. All drugs will have some sort of adverse effect on people that don't need them. So yes none are 100% safe, anticancer drugs least of all!

GrouseMan
DW 53 dx Jun 2013
CT mets Liver Spleen lung. IVb CEA~110
Jul 2013 Sig Resct
8/13 FolFox,Avastin 12Tx mild sfx, Ongoing 5-FU Avastin every 3 wks.
CEA: good marker
7/7/14 CT Can't see the spleen Mets.
8/16/15 CEA Up, CT new abdominal mets. Iri, 5-FU, Avastin every 2 wks.
1/16 Iri, Erbitux and likely Avastin (Trial) CEA going >.
1/17 CEA up again dropped from Trial, Mets growth 4-6 mm in abdomen
5/2/17 Failed second trial, Hospitalized 15 days 5/11. Home Hospice 5/26, at peace 6/4/2017

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GrouseMan
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Location: SE Michigan USA

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby GrouseMan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Deb m wrote:Grouse Man,

With these law suits, how on earth can they possible prove that the individuals cancer was specifically caused by the product or whatever they were exposed to? How did the guy who won his suit against round up weed killer prove that his cancer was caused by that specific product and that he may of gotten it even without being exposed to that product?



All very good questions. But in answer to this particular one. They can't conclusively say he got cancer from roundup. Their is absolutely no evidence of that fact anywhere. No smoking gun, nothing at all that points to the fact that roundup directly caused his cancer. He won his suit, because of the emotional testimony and the handwaving of a lot of supposed experts trying to draw a direct line between roundup and it causing cancer. There is no such line. Best anyone had been able to say is that it is a probable cause of cancer in animals though no real evidence exists. They use correlative statistics and say its causation. Any reputable statistician will tell you correlation does not equal causation! The jury is selected to be unbiased and thus usually uneducated enough to not fully understand technical testimony. No one on that jury I suspect had any king of decent math or statistical degree, science degree or medical degree. The ambulance chasers want these to go to jury trials. A Judge or arbitrator gets educated and likely will not go in their favor. So it ends up being an emotional judgement in many cases.

Another one is J&J and baby powder causing ovarian cancer. Just how does that work? Wouldn't every woman have this? After all when we are babies we are constantly doused with this stuff at a time of critical development I should suspect that we should all have lung cancer from it. I am sure my mom and I had breathed in enough of if over those years! I mean they have been selling this since 1894! Again - Talc is about like brick dust. Just how does it end up getting into the ovaries in the first place? And even if it made its way there how would it get inside a cell and cause a mutation resulting in cancer? If its due to asbestos what's the mechanism? Ovarian Cancer has been studied extensively for a long time. Wouldn't you think it would have been found in the ovaries of many women with ovarian cancer? People looking for someone to blame latch onto an idea with the help of enablers by extension in this case think well talc can (maybe) contain some asbestos, Asbestos causes lung cancer there for Talc can too! J&J being who they are I seriously doubt would try an cover up a link between Talc and Ovarian Cancer. Who in their right mind would sell a product for 100 years that is used on babies if it could be shown to cause cancer!

Neither of these cases are like asbestos related lung cancer (Mesothelioma) or smoking! In the case of Mesothelioma its a particular form of crystal that gets into the lungs and constantly causes irritation which eventually leads to cancer of the lungs due to an inflammatory response. The cells get altered or mutated by body itself. Sort of like an autoimmune disease you might say. Also - this particular form of asbestos only comes from certain mines. Other forms from other mines are harmless, but they would have you believe that all cause cancer. They actually find these crystals in some cases in the lungs of people with Mesothelioma! Smoking its easy to show that many compounds found in tobacco smoke are direct carcinogens/mutagens. There is no doubt. When these compounds are isolated and administered they cause cancer every time! Vaping it was hopped would reduce these harmful effects. Turns out they have a whole new set of their own.

The issue of genetics and modified foods etc I'll have to leave for another day.

GrouseMan
DW 53 dx Jun 2013
CT mets Liver Spleen lung. IVb CEA~110
Jul 2013 Sig Resct
8/13 FolFox,Avastin 12Tx mild sfx, Ongoing 5-FU Avastin every 3 wks.
CEA: good marker
7/7/14 CT Can't see the spleen Mets.
8/16/15 CEA Up, CT new abdominal mets. Iri, 5-FU, Avastin every 2 wks.
1/16 Iri, Erbitux and likely Avastin (Trial) CEA going >.
1/17 CEA up again dropped from Trial, Mets growth 4-6 mm in abdomen
5/2/17 Failed second trial, Hospitalized 15 days 5/11. Home Hospice 5/26, at peace 6/4/2017

Deb m
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Zantac and Colon Cancer

Postby Deb m » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:55 am

Thanks for your reply Grouse Man, All very interesting. Like I said, I wish I would of gone to school for Bio chemistry or something like that as my son is instead of nursing.

Deb


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