Anyone taking artemisinin?

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TinaFish
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:11 am

Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby TinaFish » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:59 pm

I researched a lot of alternative treatments, and some of you may have read about my diarrhea journey, so you may already know that I had to cut a lot of them out. However, a lot of great stuff is being said about artemisinin, and as luck would have it, I can't find any information accusing it of causing diarrhea.

If you're taking artemisinin or took it in the past, please share your info/experience, as well as your protocol. I'm taking 10mg iron in the morning (iron helps artemisinin work better) and then 300mg artemisinin in the evening. I do this for four days, then I take three days off.

I know iron is supposedly "hard on the stomach" (whatever that means), but 10mg is the RDA, so I assume it's ok.
F 45, single mother to son, 7 and daughter, 3
DX: stage 4 Rectal Cancer June 2019
Tumor Location: ? cm above anal verge
Tumor type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size: 5 cm
Tumor grade: ?
TNM code: ?
Stage : Stage IV-B
# of cancerous lymph nodes: ?
Mets: Numerous mets to liver, lungs
CEA: 22 in July; 11 as of August 15, 7 as of Sept 20
MSI status: MSS
KRAS/BRAF status: KRAS mutation
surgery: TBD
Ostomy surgery: TBD
Radiation therapy: TBD
Chemotherapy : CAPEOX+Avastin, 6 cycles, with CT scans after 3rd and 6th cycle.

User avatar
GrouseMan
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: SE Michigan USA

Re: Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby GrouseMan » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:43 am

I was interested in researching the possibilities of this in cancer research over 30 years ago when the chemical compound in this was originally identified and shown to contain a rather unique organic peroxide functional group. I built a case for investigating this to my department director, but he wasn't interested. Might have known a long time ago if this would have played out as an anticancer drug if I could have even done this as a side project.

Have a look at this link - its a search within these forums.

search.php?keywords=artemisinin&fid%5B0%5D=1

Have a look through these results. Back around 2014 we discussed Artemisinin and other similar natural product derived compounds that might be useful.

Good Luck

GrouseMan
DW 53 dx Jun 2013
CT mets Liver Spleen lung. IVb CEA~110
Jul 2013 Sig Resct
8/13 FolFox,Avastin 12Tx mild sfx, Ongoing 5-FU Avastin every 3 wks.
CEA: good marker
7/7/14 CT Can't see the spleen Mets.
8/16/15 CEA Up, CT new abdominal mets. Iri, 5-FU, Avastin every 2 wks.
1/16 Iri, Erbitux and likely Avastin (Trial) CEA going >.
1/17 CEA up again dropped from Trial, Mets growth 4-6 mm in abdomen
5/2/17 Failed second trial, Hospitalized 15 days 5/11. Home Hospice 5/26, at peace 6/4/2017

AlexandraZ
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:25 am

Re: Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby AlexandraZ » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:43 pm

Hi TinaFish!

My boyfriend Jesper takes artemisinin, two capsules twice a day. I don't have the jar here and I don't remember how strong they are, sorry! He takes them during the weekdays and then has two days off in the weekend. He hasn't experienced any adverse effects from them, no diarrhea or anything. I can't say what good effects they have had, as we have fully changed his diet and he takes loads of other supplements as well.

Good luck! Your diagnosis is similar to Jesper's, so I'm always extra curious about your experiences. :)
Boyfriend 28yo dx February 2019, CEA 70,480
Stage 4 CRC with multiple mets to liver & lungs
KRAS, NRAS, BRAF wild type, MSS
12x FOLFIRI + Vectibix
September 2019 CEA 210, 60% reduction in size, chemo break!

TinaFish
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:11 am

Re: Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby TinaFish » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:04 pm

GrouseMan wrote:I was interested in researching the possibilities of this in cancer research over 30 years ago when the chemical compound in this was originally identified and shown to contain a rather unique organic peroxide functional group. I built a case for investigating this to my department director, but he wasn't interested. Might have known a long time ago if this would have played out as an anticancer drug if I could have even done this as a side project.

Have a look at this link - its a search within these forums.

search.php?keywords=artemisinin&fid%5B0%5D=1

Have a look through these results. Back around 2014 we discussed Artemisinin and other similar natural product derived compounds that might be useful.

Good Luck

GrouseMan


Thank you, GrouseMan. I went to the link that you referenced. But in light of the fact that you're a chemist and have far more extensive knowledge of these supplements than I do, it's not encouraging to me that your education and knowledge weren't enough to help your wife. I''m so sorry that you lost her. May I please ask- did you suggest to her that she take artemisinin? If so, did it seem like it offered any improvement, even temporarily?
F 45, single mother to son, 7 and daughter, 3
DX: stage 4 Rectal Cancer June 2019
Tumor Location: ? cm above anal verge
Tumor type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size: 5 cm
Tumor grade: ?
TNM code: ?
Stage : Stage IV-B
# of cancerous lymph nodes: ?
Mets: Numerous mets to liver, lungs
CEA: 22 in July; 11 as of August 15, 7 as of Sept 20
MSI status: MSS
KRAS/BRAF status: KRAS mutation
surgery: TBD
Ostomy surgery: TBD
Radiation therapy: TBD
Chemotherapy : CAPEOX+Avastin, 6 cycles, with CT scans after 3rd and 6th cycle.

User avatar
GrouseMan
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: SE Michigan USA

Re: Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby GrouseMan » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:58 am

Her cancer was quite advanced and discovered far too late. No Chemotherapy would have been able to save her and she was not a candidate for surgery. Her oncologist was not open to a lot of unproven and by that I mean things not supported by clinical trials. I am not a doctor. I was a former drug discovery chemist that spent much of my career searching for new clinical candidates in Oncology and cardiovascular therapeutic areas. Also my wife was a very athletic independent woman and made her own decisions about her treatment.

My major hang up about the whole use of supplements have to do with Maximum effective dose. Most of the stuff you can buy OTC without prescriptions are way to low a dose to be effective. The one supplement I did have her take was Tagamet. Its a know formerly prescription drug available OTC, that one can take at up very high does per day and it remains pretty safe to take. And actual studies did show a weak though suggestive indication that it could be useful in treating cancer, particularly colon cancer. There are really no OTC sources for Artemisinin that provide enough of the active compound to make it effective for much including its actual anti malarial indication. One needs the purified compound available only by prescription in quantities that would at best perhaps be beneficial certainly not curative. Its a complex molecule to synthesize. If I had been her oncologist I would have prescribed at least one of the drugs I had helped develop and is on the market used for Lung Cancer right now. However at the time many such drugs had not yet gone through clinical trials for Colon Cancer (Most still have not). Another drug I also worked on and in the market place is being used for advanced breast cancer treatment, I might have considered this one as well. Her diagnosis was before the more resent availability of other cancer drugs for which I was aware such as the PD-1, PD-L1 MAB inhibitors.

So - taken as a whole. My inability to save my wife specifically is really irrelevant to the discussion here. I continue to educate myself on many aspects of cancer research and attempt to aid people in understanding how this stuff works and to make informed decisions. Basing your decision on the fact that I lost my wife and didn't try all these things is not an informed decision. She would have refused taking a lot of supplements. I would not have been able to force her to do so. She didn't believe in taking the Tagamet, but did so for my sake as it was about the only thing I believed in that was available OTC, and her oncologist believed would not interfere with her palliative care. She received nearly 4 more years of really good quality of life given her diagnosis due mainly to her oncologist ability to slow the progression down. She was riding horses and enjoying her recent retirement to within a few short weeks of her death. Believe me she didn't slow down! She didn't let this get the best of her. In the end what got her was a side effect. A tumor that could not be surgically removed caused a blockage in her upper GI tract that could not be fixed. It was pressing from her peritoneal cavity against upper colon. Anything she digested was not absorbed and she basically starved to death. Surgeon tried to bypass it didn't work. This tumor was not very visible on CT/PET scans until it was already causing problems. Her CEA actually was an indicator of something happening but where it was by no means known. Her Liver and Spleen tumors had been more or less arrested for some time. One should keep hope but also not everyone can be saved. We've lost a lot of members that tried heroically to get to NED. Did for a while but then maybe later passed away when it came back. Also two others I know this past 6 months have been lost due to advanced cancers not being diagnosed until too late. Pancreatic cancer spread to lungs, and small cell lung cancer for the other. Both went undiagnosed for far too long.

GrouseMan
DW 53 dx Jun 2013
CT mets Liver Spleen lung. IVb CEA~110
Jul 2013 Sig Resct
8/13 FolFox,Avastin 12Tx mild sfx, Ongoing 5-FU Avastin every 3 wks.
CEA: good marker
7/7/14 CT Can't see the spleen Mets.
8/16/15 CEA Up, CT new abdominal mets. Iri, 5-FU, Avastin every 2 wks.
1/16 Iri, Erbitux and likely Avastin (Trial) CEA going >.
1/17 CEA up again dropped from Trial, Mets growth 4-6 mm in abdomen
5/2/17 Failed second trial, Hospitalized 15 days 5/11. Home Hospice 5/26, at peace 6/4/2017

jsbsf
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:01 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Anyone taking artemisinin?

Postby jsbsf » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:54 pm

I did a little research on artemisinin, but haven’t brought myself to purchasing any. I did read your thread about the COC protocol, and the side effects of Metformin. I bought a copy of Jane McCleland’s book, but for the most part found it overwhelming. I don’t know where to start. I did, however purchase Berberine, Milk Thistle, and Fenbendazole. I’m a little nervous about adding these to the FOLFOX regimen which we have just begun. I haven’t discussed any of it with my oncologist. I feel a little strange about ingesting dog dewormer, but hey, if I know it will help...

We still need to give the FOLFOX a fair chance at this point.

It seemed like Berberine might be an alternative to Metformin, without as many nasty side effects. But all the science was very hard for me to follow. Milk Thistle supposedly prepares some organs (liver?) for the upcoming onslaught of chemo. So I’m wondering if it might be prudent to take maybe the couple days before the next infusion.

I did mention in another thread about PSK and cimetidine (Tagamet). I don’t recall that they are part of COC, but I did bring this up to an oncologist who gave us our 2nd opinion, and she somewhat indirectly recommended PSK. I was pretty happy about how open minded she was, and she is from a very highly respected cancer treatment center. As far as Cimetidine, she didn’t seem opposed to it, but not as encouraged. She felt that neither has high enough levels of toxicity to give her any real amount of concern.

I didn’t bring up Modified Citrus Pectin to her, but another user here, ehut, originally turned me on to PSK, cimetidine, and MCP. I’ve read pretty extensively about these, and we were taking all three while waiting about a month for chemo. Supposedly they have an impact on metastasis. It’s all scientific, but they described it in terms of forming blood vessels to supply tumors, cancer cells clumping together and the ability for the cells to adhere and form a tumor. The Cimetidine is something recommended around the time of surgery and for a time thereafter. Some research showed some promising results. I know we are all different and what works for Joe may not work for Jane, so I’m not recommending any of this, but just want to increase awareness of something that might work as a backup, maybe alongside chemo.

I’m nervous about taking supplements along with chemo, but we are dealing with a very serious illness, and so it seems that if the least a supplement can do is very little to help, it’s worth the risk.
DH 61
2019
8/23 Colonoscopy, 5+cm mass
8/26 CT ~1cm liver met?
9/6 PET: liver spot
9/16 MSS. baseline CEA is 4.1; MRI: 2 liver mets: 2.7 & 7mm
9/23 Port
9/30 Start FOLFOX
10/4 Larger liver met ~3.7cm (raised concern), colon tumor stable.
CEA: 10/13,12.5;10/27,4.7;11/12,3.3
11/5 both liver mets almost 2/3 smaller.


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