My father's ashamed of me

[brokenwings]

It's a very sad evening for me.

I had my father on the phone and he keeps putting pressure on me to seek a second opinion about my treatment, which I don't want to do because I'm happy with my oncologist and happier with my surgeon.

As you can read in my signature, I have a tumor in my sigmoid and mets in my peritoneum.

My surgeon had to do a temporary colostomy in January but didn't want to operate on me back then (colon resection + cyto reductive surgery + HIPEC) because he thought surgery was going to be extremely heavy on me. (FYI my PCI was 16 then). He thought it'd be best to have some chemo before surgery to "calm things down". The whole operation has to be done at the same time (French protocol).

My father was extremely disappointed when he learnt that my surgeon chose not to operate on me. He even asked a second opinion to a friend of his who's an oncologist and -guess what?- he agreed with my surgeon!

Since then, he keeps repeating that I have to be operated on and that I have to look for another surgeon just in case my current surgeon doesn't want to do it after 4 (or 6) cycles of chemo.

Tonight the pressure was so heavy that he even told me that it was ok if I lost a kidney during surgery, that's not a big deal (wtf?).
When I hang up, I broke down and spoke to my husband and he confessed the most horrible thing... My dad once told him that I had to be operated on, even if I died on the operating table.

I think my father's ashamed of me because I have cancer. He usually hates surgery but now he keeps pushing for it. I think he wants me to be operated on as soon as possible so he doesn't have to tell people that his daughter has cancer and she's doing chemo and she's bald and weak and has a colostomy...

I'm sorry, I had to get that out of my chest...

[Lee]

I am so SORRY you are having to deal with family issues like that. Kinda sounds like you got that 2nd opinion. Please feel free to vent away here.

If your dad has a computer, maybe send him data that supports your path.

Good luck, again I am so sorry you are dealing with this,

Lee

[NHMike]

With some, we have to defend our course of treatment and sometimes that's hard to do. I've received notes or words from people suggesting all kinds of things to get rid of cancer and I have to choose how to respond to the type of suggestion and the type of person making the suggestion. In your case, it's quite hard because it's someone close who has a strong opinion. You're probably in the best position to figure out how to respond.

[stu]

Hi

When I read your post I read it both as a parent and as a carer . There is a helplessness to being a carer as you want with every ounce of your being to remove this disease so the person you love does not have to endure anything . Of course you are completely powerless. In those circumstances surgery becomes the solution in our heads at all costs . I will confess that I thought at one point that if my mum died on the surgical table then she would at least be pain free . My husband then informed me that it would not happen in theatre but post surgery. Crazy mixed up thought process but my motivation was to prevent my mum from any pain .

With time and a better understanding I realised that chemo is a big player in the overall solution . That medics are infact better place to make a lot of the judgement calls and that I was better placed being supportive than finding solutions .

Even with all that knowledge as a mum if it were my children I honestly think my crazy thought process would take over for a bit .

Keep to your plan and the people you trust and remember parents don’t always make wise comments but our hearts want the best for you . Sorry he has caused you pain .

Stu

[Jannine]

omg. How frustrating! Please forgive me for being a bit unsympathetic to your father here, but you need to do what's best for you, not what's best for his self-image, worldview or social comfort. If he would be uncomfortable with having to explain the situation he's just going to have to deal with the discomfort, or else accept the fact that he's not able to discuss this with other people comfortably. He's just going to have to deal with the inconvenience.

It sounds like you're getting good medical advice and have a good handle on your options. You are doing what you need to do to take care of yourself. For a lot of people, finding out that a loved one has cancer can turn the whole world on its head, and can even challenge core beliefs about who we are and where our life is going. I think we never know how someone will handle such a crisis until it happens. Some people handle it well, some want to try to figure out a way to get some control (which may be what your father is doing here?), some will panic... there's probably as many reactions as there are people. And many of them are emotional gut reactions, which are the hardest to change even when people tell you you're being irrational.

Good luck, and I hope things get easier soon. It is a big double whammy having to deal with both our own illness and also others' difficult reactions to it.

[ANDRETEXAS]

Of course, you should continue the plan laid out by you and your doctors. I'm hoping that your father is unaware of the advances made in cancer treatment, and that he's not afraid of the word "cancer." Maybe he's one of those people that thinks nothing can be "cured" without immediate surgery. Just keep on keepin' on with your plan. It's not your problem that he cannot deal with your decision. It's up to him to decide what he wants to tell his acquaintances. That should be the least of your worries. Hang in there......

[Maggie Nell]

Tonight the pressure was so heavy that he even told me that it was ok if I lost a kidney during surgery, that's not a big deal (wtf?).
When I hang up, I broke down and spoke to my husband and he confessed the most horrible thing... My dad once
told him that I had to be operated on, even if I died on the operating table.

I think my father's ashamed of me because I have cancer. He usually hates surgery but now he keeps pushing for it. I think he wants me to be operated on as soon as possible so he doesn't have to tell people that his daughter has cancer and she's doing chemo and she's bald and weak and has a colostomy...

I'm sorry, I had to get that out of my chest...

There actually are parents in this world who don't meet the universal ideal of wanting the best for their children. Major league red
flags here: your father's preference is to make your husband a widower asap and for you to die on the operating table. How
melodramatic! Rather a toxic thing to say to your dear husband who, obviously, has been keeping that horrid thing close to his
chest. Maintaining emotional intimacy and honest communication in the relationship with your man - your husband - is what is most
important as this is a crisis in your marriage, this is your future together. The positive from this is that your husband has shared
this with you and it's out of his chest and you can now be united in a strategy on how to handle any further intrusions from dad.

It is possible that your father's discomfort is a fear of not being able to regulate his emotions over the long-haul.

Jannine raises a pertinent point about a devastating diagnosis such as cancer turning one's world upside down and core values and beliefs,
one's sense of identity being challenged. A lot of dark shadow material comes to the surface. Perhaps one day your father will catch a
glimpse of himself in the mirror and feel deeply ashamed for his thoughtless remarks that do more harm than help.

Only you know if your father has a history of making tactless remarks that you've ignored in the past or shrugged off and whether or
not you have the energy to 'train' father to make sure his brain is engaged before he opens his mouth to stick his foot in it.

[LPL]

bwings wrote:
My father was extremely disappointed when he learnt that my surgeon chose not to operate on me. He even asked a second opinion to a friend of his who's an oncologist and -guess what?- he agreed with my surgeon!

Since then, he keeps repeating that I have to be operated on and that I have to look for another surgeon just in case my current surgeon doesn't want to do it after 4 (or 6) cycles of chemo.

I’m so sorry you have to deal with all this
In the quote above I highlighted the 2nd opinion ‘he’ in fact already has got regarding this!! For now.. to get some peace for you.. is it an option to tell him that IF (after the chemo) your current surgeon doesn’t want to operate.. then you will look for a 2nd opinion.
I do agree with Maggie Nell
that it is good that there is no secrets now between you & your husband regarding things your father has said. Also I am very fond of the expression “make sure your brain is engaged before opening mouth”.
I really hope your father will realize that he is not helping you by acting like this!

[brokenwings]

Dear friends,

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my long message and giving me your support, advice and opinions.

I think each of you has a point. My father is in fact one of the "controlling type" of people so I guess it's hard for him to realise that in this case it's my surgeon (and his team) who are going to decide when to operate, not my father. It's not his call and that's hard to "digest" for him.

I think you're also right when you say that "people go crazy" when they know that I still have the tumor inside of me and that I have to wait to get it out. They just want my surgeon to "get it all out" as soon as possible. What they don't know (and apparently my father also forgot about it) is that I'm a stage 4 patient and my peri mets make the surgery delicate and long. It's not as if I were a stage 1 patient where the only thing to do is to remove a small tumor and voilà, finished.
Maybe they don't fully understand it medically (1) or it's just too hard for them to accept (2). Since my father's a medical doctor, I'm going to go with (2) for him.

And yes, Maggie, that was a terrible thing to say to my husband... It was so hard for him to keep it a secret (he didn't want to hurt me so he didn’t tell me anything until yersterday).

So I decided that I’ll speak to my father and tell him clear and loud (sort of speak) that I’m fine with my treatment and that I fully trust my team. And to stop harrassing me about his second opinion delusion.

Thanks again for your support, it means so much to me.

Hugs,

Paola

[stu]

Hi ,

I think you have been very wise drawing a boundary line around your treatment . You are the lead person in this process and how you want to approach it must be honoured .

My family is all from a health care background . One aspect which was difficult was erasing images of former patients from our minds in the early days . I wanted to find a way to protect my mum . Of course you can’t .

On a slightly different note on more than one occasion my husband ( medic) gave us opinions on how he would proceed which was at odds with the treatment team . We explored his option and sought out a different surgeon which has significantly extended my mum’s life .

Weigh everything up yourself . Discount nothing , but at times be open to exploring other surgical opinions if that is what is best for your health . Not because your dad said so but because it may be right for your health .

However that is much further down the road .

Take special care and have a good day ,

Stu

[KimT]

I have been both a patient and a caregiver. Being a caregiver was by far the harder role. It is so hard to see someone you love suffer and not be able to do anything about it. Your father is probably terrified of losing you. Parents act in ridiculous ways when their kids are hurting. Even though he is a doctor, he probably has no ability to see your case rationally. I’m a nurse. I can remain very calm in any emergency except when my kid is involved. When my son broke his arm, I was just another mom acting like a fool in the ER.

The goal of most stage 4 patients is to get to surgery. Your dad probably has tunnel vision and all he can see is that goal. Again, he cannot be objective because it is you. I doubt that he is ashamed of you but it just plain scared that he might lose you. People don’t always react in the most supportive ways when loved ones are diagnosed with cancer. My husband obsessed over finding me the most qualified doctors and treatment options. He would hole up in front of the computer for hours. I know he was rehung to cope with my diagnosis and he thought he was helping me by finding me the best care. I wish he had just talked to me about what I was going through. I went through cancer twice and we never once talked about it.

[Wewillfight]

BrokenWings

My boyfriend has recently being diagnosed with a similar condition- it be great if we could touch base

Your dad im sure is devastated and just trying to cure you- it is extremely hard on him- im sure he will begin to cope better soon

Xx

[Cured]

Paola, Things like death of a loved one, or cancer are things we never want to experience. In our mind they are impossible to conceive. When my son died suddenly I was devastated. I found myself telling people that the impossible happened. I am crying to even type this.

Controlling people: when they can’t control things they can be lost. Heck, when cancer attacked me, all of the sudden I can’t control my own life. I have to count on others to care for me and to cure me. By God’s grace I was able to accept being in the hands of Drs. & nurses. It is beautiful to accept the care and prayers of others.

We have 2 parallel journeys: One spiritual and one medical. I pray God will help you in both.

PS: Stu, thanks for jumping in with your support so quickly.

[CRguy]

Not sure I should weigh in here .... BUTT... never stopped me before
PLEASE read my BIO so you will know where I am coming from since 2008

Did your Dad SAY he was ashamed ?
OR
Did you feel he was ??

As a Dad, patient, caregiver, etc... etc....= read my Bio

He is a Doc
HE can't directly help you
He NEEDS to be able to help you ... and he can't

BTDT at least 3 times in my life as a "Doc"

it hurts
it sucks

it is NOT acceptable if someone I love needs me and I cannot FIX IT

IF how I come across as kind of being
dismissive
distant

MAYBE it isn't YOU
it may well be "me"

We are Docs and we need to fix things
when OUR own loved ones need "fixing" ... we may not always have
the right Words
the right Ways

BUTT you can ALWAYS count on us to have

YOUR best interests in heart
because YOU
are always in our hearts

WORD !

BTDT
as patient and caregiver

CRguy

[brokenwings]

Dear friends,

Thanks again for your prayers, good wishes and heartfelt support.

I finally spoke to my father and explained to him calmly the goal of neo-ajuvant chemo. This is quite absurd because being an MD himself he should know that!! But as you all said, when a loved one is involved, even doctors stop thinking and acting rationally.

On a different note, I think there's a little bit of Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde going on with my father, as when we spoke yesterday he seemed so calm and so different from the person who was almost yelling: "If you have to lose a kidney during surgery, that's just that!!".

Thank you again for being there. I'd just lose my mind if I had to go through this alone...

Hugs,

Paola