RGCC test questions

Please feel free to read, share your thoughts, your stories and connect with others!
zephyr
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:31 am

RGCC test questions

Postby zephyr » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:17 am

I’m considering having the RGCC test. I searched the forum and found some general discussions but those were 2-3 years ago. Does anyone have any more recent experience or knowledge about this test and the success when a patient complies with the recommendations? I’m especially interested for maintenance purposes as I’ve run out of chemo options.
Nov-2009 Early stage CRC found during routine colonoscopy
2010, 2011, 2014 Follow up colonoscopies, all clear
Jun-2016 CRC found during routine follow up colonoscopy, surgery, Stage 4, KRAS, MSS, inoperable lung mets
Aug-2016-May-2018 Folfox, 5FU & Avastin, 5FU, Folfiri & Cyramza
Aug/Sep-2018 YAG laser surgeries (Germany) on both lungs, 11 nodules (9 mets) removed
Nov-2018 clean CT scan
Mar-2019 New lung nodules
April-2019 Xeloda + Avastin

rp1954
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby rp1954 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:11 am

The rise of Foundation One, with its liquid biopsy and tissue biopsy programs, seems to dominate that headspace, here, these days.

zephyr wrote: ...I’ve run out of chemo options.

As for running out of chemo options, the immuno chemo approach has far greater extensibility and range available than generally realized. It's primary caveat to get to NED, seems to be to not let the tumor masses and dissemination get overwhelming, and to keep plugging away at locally curative resections despite various "it's inoperable" opinions. Basically, when we removed the largest features, one could see more immunochemo sensitivity return in the blood results. When something changes, like markers or thingies, we hit them harder, nicely but harder, hopefully in a targeted way.

The primary problem with alternative medicine, is the general failure to systematically target and use potent quantities of the nicest combinations of human chemistry, and to require chemo compatibility with that rather than vice versa. I have not personally found any MD or ND to do this systematically enough for our results, but I haven't been everywhere either. Mostly by stretching them, one insightful doctor in one subject area, have we been able to get pronounced, measurable results that cumulatively change the outlook.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

User avatar
O Stoma Mia
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:29 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby O Stoma Mia » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 am

zephyr wrote:I’m considering having the RGCC test. I searched the forum and found some general discussions but those were 2-3 years ago. Does anyone have any more recent experience or knowledge about this test and the success when a patient complies with the recommendations? I’m especially interested for maintenance purposes as I’ve run out of chemo options.

Are these the tests?
https://imcwc.com/html5-blank/rgcc-test-greek-test/

https://www.foundationmedicine.com/genomic-testing/foundation-one-liquid
Last edited by O Stoma Mia on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zephyr
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:31 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby zephyr » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:32 pm

O Stoma Mia wrote:Is these the tests?
https://imcwc.com/html5-blank/rgcc-test-greek-test/


Yes, that's it! When I was in Germany, another patient showed me a copy of his RGCC test results. The report included sections where they cultured tumor cells, tested their activity with different substances, and then gave treatment recommendations targeted to his genetic makeup. For example, in his case, the test showed that the tumor cells had high sensitivity to cisplatin but only partial sensitivity to oxaliplatin. There were 22 pages of information, most of which was over my head, but the report could be valuable information the hands of someone more informed. It's pretty pricey though and before I go that route, I sure would like to hear from someone who had the test and had successful results: I'm told that doctor compliance is a problem.

I'm going to ask my naturopathic oncologist about the Foundation One tests.
Nov-2009 Early stage CRC found during routine colonoscopy
2010, 2011, 2014 Follow up colonoscopies, all clear
Jun-2016 CRC found during routine follow up colonoscopy, surgery, Stage 4, KRAS, MSS, inoperable lung mets
Aug-2016-May-2018 Folfox, 5FU & Avastin, 5FU, Folfiri & Cyramza
Aug/Sep-2018 YAG laser surgeries (Germany) on both lungs, 11 nodules (9 mets) removed
Nov-2018 clean CT scan
Mar-2019 New lung nodules
April-2019 Xeloda + Avastin

mpbser
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby mpbser » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:48 pm

I stumbled upon this testing when I heard this set of tests referred to as the “Greece test.” Here is a direct link to the lab: https://www.rgcc-group.com/?page=tests They all look incredibly useful. My husband’s doctors have all refused to order a CTC test from Foundation One so we will be embarking on a path to get a “second opinion” on that. Now that I have discovered RGCC, I wonder if this could be a better option.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
lymph nodes: 9 of 96
CEA: 2.9 to 2.2
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Tumor: MTOR, APC, TP53
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI shows 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly hemorrhaged to death
6/10/19 5FU

mpbser
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby mpbser » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:04 am

Did a little more digging on this forum and found this comment about RGCC:

There are compelling scientific reasons why Dr. Weisenthal and other experts have very serious concerns about this approach. The method consists of removing normal cells from blood samples. This supposedly leaves only tumor cells. The remaining cells are then cultured and passed through a flow cytometer. A flow cytometer is a machine that detects a fluorescing marker which was added to a cell sample during processing. In this case, the marker used is called “annexin.” Annexin binds to the membranes of cells which have been killed through a process called apoptosis.
Here is why that approach cannot possibly work as the laboratory claims. First, real tumor cells always clump together when they are cultured (“culturing,” as it is used here, means inducing tumor cells to multiply outside the body). Cells which have clumped-together CANNOT be interrogated with a flow cytometer, which works by passing cells through a laser light beam, one cell at a time. Secondly, the lab in question prepares the sample using what is called “negative selection.” It attempts to remove normal cells from the sample and leave behind what are hoped to be only tumor cells. Experts in the field of cell selection state that this is impossible. No negative selection methods, known to exist today, can produce a pure tumor population - or even come close to doing so. Persons knowledgable in this area agree that this method always leaves behind hundreds or thousands of normal cells for every one tumor cell obtained. Hence, any readings obtained with this method would be based mainly upon normal cells and not upon tumor cells. Data obtained with this method would be irrelevant at best. More importantly, it is easy to see how inaccurate data such as these could drive treatment decisions which are harmful to the patient. Dr. Weisenthal has never warned against using the services of any specific lab. In this case, he strongly advises awaiting the emergence of data from independent investigators, showing that this method is capable of accurately assessing anti-tumor drug activity.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
lymph nodes: 9 of 96
CEA: 2.9 to 2.2
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Tumor: MTOR, APC, TP53
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI shows 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly hemorrhaged to death
6/10/19 5FU

mpbser
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby mpbser » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:21 am

That archived comment from 2015 referred to Dr. Weisenthal in California: http://www.weisenthalcancer.com/Services.html

Has anyone consulted with him? I think that we will look into a "second opinion" with him.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
lymph nodes: 9 of 96
CEA: 2.9 to 2.2
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Tumor: MTOR, APC, TP53
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI shows 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly hemorrhaged to death
6/10/19 5FU

mpbser
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: RGCC test questions

Postby mpbser » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:45 am

Darn it, darn it, darn it. Discovered Weisenthal too late! "The tests cannot be performed on dead cells or on tissues that were obtained in a past surgery or biopsy procedure." Argh!
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
lymph nodes: 9 of 96
CEA: 2.9 to 2.2
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Tumor: MTOR, APC, TP53
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI shows 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly hemorrhaged to death
6/10/19 5FU


Return to “Colon Talk - Colon cancer (colorectal cancer) support forum”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cvl, Google [Bot] and 50 guests