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Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:09 pm
by Punky44
I am losing it—my mom’s CEA came back at 17. I quickly Googled this and got countless studies showing high numbers, particularly over 10, likely mean stage IV and likely mean recurrence and low survival. There is a 2017 study that contradicts this and says it is really just a baseline and its post-op trend is more indicative of success but that was just one study among many that say the opposite.

I’m looking through your signatures and I could only find one person with a number higher than my mom’s—all of yours seem much lower.

I don’t want to give myself false hope but is there anyone out there that had a high CEA and wasn’t stage IV? And has a success story?

I am just broken right now.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:38 pm
by hiker
If I were you, I'd find something to occupy my time to get my mind off this for a while. There is not one thing you're gonna learn by searching the internet about your mom's staging or her likelihood of survival - you just don't have enough information from the doctors yet.

And even after you do learn her stage, that will provide you no information about her chance of survival. She's an individual and cancer and its treatment are different for everyone.

I've heard of plenty stage iv folks with initial CEA numbers in the hundreds and some in the thousands that got to NED status.

If the information you receive from her doctors does not include a plan to get your mom to NED, the best thing you can do is get a second, third, or fourth opinion from a major cancer center.

hiker

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 pm
by stu
I would place no weight on that at all . My mum was stage 4 , asymptomatic . Great big liver mets with a CEA of 7.4 .
Her tumours just don’t give out much protein as far as I understand it .
Take care,
Stu

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:17 pm
by Cmac1275
Agreed with above. My onc and I agreed we'll keep testing for it. But we're not going to use it as an entirely reliable marker. In my case, I had my CEA go all the way down from 60 to 2.1 after chemo and liver resection this year. But, about a month ago, they found some new spots in my liver. CEA has remained steady. Even after yesterday's labs, it's holding at 3.6. And that's with no chemo or treatment in almost 5 months. So we're looking at it, but not fretting about it.

I know it's easier to say it when you are on the lower end of the scale. But I honestly would take the same approach if I was on the opposite end.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:28 pm
by stu
Just wondered if your reading their CEA numbers post surgery . Quite a lot of people have a higher CEA at diagnosis.
Stu

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:44 pm
by Punky44
Cmac, did you have a preoperative CEA or was your first one the post op at 60?

Stu, maybe? I tried to read the top of signatures at the start of diagnosis.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:45 pm
by Jack&KatiesMommy
Mine was 2,643 at diagnosis 7 1/2 years ago. It is 1.0 today.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:44 am
by plastikos
My CEA was normal at diagnosis and I was St. IV. Although CEA is a useful marker and is usually monitored for recurrence it is not the be all and end all for CRC. That’s why oncologists still order the scans. Staging is important and obviously everyone would want to be Stage I but what matters more is how you handle it by taking the right steps at whatever stage you’re at. Lots of St. IV survivors here. Some “cured” and some still fighting. Good luck.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:43 am
by Jannine
My CEA was 11.2 and I was diagnosed stage III with no detected lymph node involvement and no mets. As others have said, you don't have enough information yet; see what specifics you learn and go from there. CEA is just one indicator and isn't ever used to make decisions on its own, because it is so variable and unpredictable.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:26 am
by weisssoccermom
STOP!!! Based on your signature....your mom's CT results came back and everything was CLEAR. Hey, that's a GOOD sign. While no test is 100% foolproof....that CLEAR result on the CT scan means an M0....or, at least based on radiological studies...it isn't a stage IV. Read what I said....based on those studies...which are studies to determine mets....there aren't any! Again, there could be microscopic little cancer cells out there that are too small for the CT to pick up but PLEASE take a breath and understand that your mom's CLEAR CT scan is GOOD NEWS!!!!!

People with stage II/III have higher than normal CEA levels without having mets AND your mom's level of 17 while higher than normal certainly isn't in the hundreds or thousands!

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:21 pm
by Punky44
Thank you guys again so much. I am really trying to breathe. Your support and advice is helping me a lot.

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:28 pm
by Lee
Punky44 wrote:I am losing it—my mom’s CEA came back at 17. I quickly Googled this and got countless studies showing high numbers, particularly over 10, likely mean stage IV and likely mean recurrence and low survival. There is a 2017 study that contradicts this and says it is really just a baseline and its post-op trend is more indicative of success but that was just one study among many that say the opposite.
.


When I was diagnosed, my CEA was something like 26. That was 14+ years ago. 17 sounds pretty good to me.

Try not to worry,

Lee

Re: Baseline CEA correlation with metastasis and survival??

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:26 pm
by dianetavegia
Because of steady weight gain, I begged my onc to check my thyroid. My CEA was 5.8 and had only been over 4 when I had pneumonia or liver met but my scans were clear. While waiting for blood work, I found many articles on HYPOthyroid causing elevated CEA. I recall one account of a woman whose scans were clear but her CEA had jumped to 149. Her CEA showed hypothyroid, so they put her on meds, regulated her TSH (took 9 months) and her CEA dropped back to normal. Her onc had told her there had to be colon cancer lurking..... but nope!