Salami

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mpbser
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:46 pm

Oxidative stress occurs after 3 miles of intense cardio. As far as the NCAN guidelines citation, I posted a link months back but will now try to dig it up.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18
5/18 NED

mpbser
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:49 pm

Found the post/link:

https://www.nccn.org/professionals/phys ... fault.aspx

find NCCN Guidelines Version 1.2017
Colon Cancer
NCCN Evidence Blocks

p 45 PRINCIPLES OF SURVIVORSHIP - Colorectal Long-term Follow-up Care

...Maintain a healthy body weight throughout life.
• Adopt a physically active lifestyle (at least 30 minutes of
moderate intensity activity on most days of the week). Activity
recommendations may require modification based on treatment
sequelae (ie, ostomy, neuropathy).
• Consume a healthy diet with emphasis on plant sources. Diet
recommendations may be modified based on severity of bowel
dysfunction
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18
5/18 NED

Lee
Posts: 5619
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: Salami

Postby Lee » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:07 pm

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents into this thread.

I'm from Montana, cattle and wheat country. I know too many ranchers who raised and ate cattle all there lives and lived to a ripe old age. One gentlemen I know, lived to 96, he died a few years ago. Colonoscopies are a more recent procedure. I'm not if he ever had a colonoscopy.

I also know a lot of ranchers who grow lots and lots of wheat. I know for a fact, a lot of pesticides are thrown into that ground before they start planting. Pesticides that I believe end up in our bodies.

So unless you grow your own food, your going to get hormones in your body from the chicken and beef that you eat and your going to get pesticides from the plant based food that you buy in the grocery store.

Just my 2 cents.

Lee
rectal cancer - April 2004
46 yrs old at diagnoses
stage III C - 6/13 lymph positive
radiation - 6 weeks
surgery - August 2004/hernia repair 2014
permanent colostomy
chemo - FOLFOX
NED - 10 years and counting!

mpbser
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:13 pm

I buy mostly organic produce and other food and have, in the past, grown my own vegies. All our meat that I buy is hormone free. We also get bison from my husband's boss who has a buffalo farm. It's not THAT hard to avoid pesticides in many parts of the country, but I know there are food deserts out there :(
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18
5/18 NED

User avatar
Atoq
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 am

Re: Salami

Postby Atoq » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:27 pm

weisssoccermom wrote:
Maybe there are no specific studies on reoccurrence, but is quite likely that reoccurrence follows the same rules as primary cancer, and then it is reccommended to avoid meat and especially processed meat. Maybe once you have had cancer your odds are more dependent on other factors, but still it is worth to eat a plant based diet also because of sustainability.



We need to be careful about making comments that we can make a huge difference in recurrence rates if we only follow a plant based diet and/or get more exercise. Sure, eating a better diet and eating unhealthy things (high fat meats, processed meats) in moderation and getting more exercise are all good things but to imply that avoiding red and/or processed meat and being more physically active will somehow stop a person from a recurrence is, IMO, irresponsible and unfair. Each person has to decide for him/herself what he/she is willing to do/not do with respect to lifestyle changes.....particularly after having gone through cancer. What's the right choice for one person isn't necessarily the right choice for another.

I thought my statements were rather careful since I wrote «maybe», when I say «avoid» I mean try to find alternative sources of protein. Now I am in Venezia on holiday but I will post links about the effects of IGF1 growing factors in meat and diary on tumors. If you want meanwhile you can search for Walter Longo studies. I said several times that diet and life style account only for a small portion of our health.

Claudia
45 year old, mother of 2
Dx rectal cancer October 2017
At least T3N2aMX (suspect metastasis to one lung 8 mm)
Lynch negative
Neoadjuvant chemoradiotherapy Xeloda + 25x2 Gy
05.12.17 laparotomic surgery for blockage, colostomy
25.01.18 laparotomic lar, hysterectomy, ileostomy
05.03.18 core needle biopsy of lung, updated to stage IV
07.05.18 CAT scan, lung metastasis 11 mm
04.06.18 ileostomy reversal
26.06.18 wedge VATS surgery

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5865
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Salami

Postby weisssoccermom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:39 pm

Everybody has a right to think and believe what they want. Personally, I believe that all the avoidance of this or that....meat, dairy, etc. is over the top. I tend to believe what my doctor has said....frankly all along....and that is to eat/drink in MODERATION. If someone wants to make his/her diet be a plant based one....go for it. That's their business. I'm not going to do it. IF all it took was to cut out meat, dairy, etc. out of one's diet and that would basically have a significant impact on the number of cancer diagnoses a year....then we all would live that lifestyle.

There are people on this board who were vegetarians, exercised, didn't drink or smoke and yet, guess what? They were diagnosed with cancer. On the opposite end, just as Lee has said, there are people who are meat eaters and they live to a ripe old age. How many super obese people are out there without cancer? How many skinny people are there diagnosed with cancer? I can say this about cancer....with 100% certainty. There is NOTHING certain about cancer.

If the OP's husband wants to eat salami......I say go for it. He obviously likes it otherwise he wouldn't eat it. We had a longtime member of this board, Belle, who passed away a few years back. After Belle's surgery, chemoradiation and more chemo, she had a lot of difficulty with her new 'plumbing'. I remember her telling me once about all the things she tried. She gave up eggs, then dairy, stopped eating meat and even stopped drinking wine and she was, frankly, unhappy. While this doesn't deal with recurrence, the thinking is the same. Belle struggled for over a year trying this and that to avoid getting a colostomy and she was so unhappy that she wasn't living the life she wanted to. One time she told me about some extreme schedule she followed that entailed her drinking some amount of water precisely 30 minutes (whatever the exact number was) before a meal with one tablespoon of Metamucil (you get the point) and doing this and that BUT....that meant she couldn't be spontaneous and go out to dinner whenever, etc. The point was, Belle felt that she went through all of the surgery and treatments and if she was miserable, what was the point?

The morale is simple.....the patient has gone through the diagnosis, surgery, treatments, etc. and if he/she wants to eat red meat....why not? There is no guarantee that no matter what you eat/don't eat.....how much or how little you exercise, etc. that your cancer won't come back. Let's face it....with cancer there are NO guarantees! Live your life and make the best of it...but most of all, be happy doing it!
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

Utwo
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am
Location: T.O.

Re: Salami

Postby Utwo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:28 pm

https://www.nccn.org/patients/resources/life_after_cancer/nutrition.aspx

What's Best to Eat?
During cancer treatment, many people lose weight because chemotherapy and radiation side effects, such as nausea, taste changes and loss of appetite, make eating unpalatable; sometimes the therapy itself impairs the absorption of nutrients. Other people may put on pounds from medications, reduced activity, or emotional and stress-related eating. Consulting with a dietician may help you develop the best eating plan for your situation. Ask your doctor for a referral.

Whether you want to gain, lose, or maintain weight, experts recommend that cancer survivors follow these guidelines for a healthy diet:

Eat a minimum of five servings of fruits and vegetables a day. A serving can be a cup of dark leafy greens or berries, a medium fruit, or a half cup of other colorful choices; use plant-based seasonings like parsley and turmeric;

Go for whole grains. Opt for high-fiber breads and cereals, including brown rice, barley, bulgur, and oats; avoid refined foods, such as donuts and white bread, and those high in sugar;

Choose lean protein. Stick to fish, poultry, and tofu, limiting red meat and processed meats;

Keep dairy low fat. Select skim milk, low-fat yogurt, and reduced-fat cheeses.

Other tips to maximize nutrition:

Aim for a variety of foods. Create a balanced plate that is one-half cooked or raw vegetables, one-fourth lean protein (chicken, fish, lean meat, or dairy) and one-fourth whole grains;

Eat fatty fish, such as salmon, sardines, and canned tuna at least twice a week. The fats in these fish are the "good" heart-healthy omega-3 fats; other sources of these fats include walnuts, canola oil, and flaxseeds;

Limit alcohol consumption. Alcohol has been linked to cancer risk. Men should have no more than two drinks a day; women should have no more than one drink;

Eat foods high in vitamin D. These include salmon, sardines, fortified orange juice, milk, and fortified cereal. Research suggests that vitamin D, which also comes from sun exposure, prevents cancer and may decrease the risk of recurrence and improve survival. People in regions with limited sunshine may be deficient and thus benefit from a vitamin D3 supplement (ask your physician about a blood test to measure deficiency);

Food – not supplements – are the best source of vitamins and minerals. There is no evidence that dietary supplements provide the same anti-cancer benefits as fruits and vegetables, and some high-dose supplements may actually increase cancer risk.

Be "mindful" when eating. Research suggests that we tend to eat more calories and food with fewer nutrients when we are watching TV, driving, or doing other activities.

To Go or Not to Go Organic
Research on the nutritional benefits of organic fruits and vegetables has been mixed, and there have been no studies examining whether organic produce is better at preventing cancer or cancer recurrence than non-organic produce.

Stephanie Meyers, a senior clinical nutritionist at the Dana-Farber Cancer Center in Boston, tells her clients to buy whatever produce they like, and to rinse all fruits and vegetables thoroughly with clean water. Buying organic foods is a personal choice, Meyer says, and cancer survivors do themselves no harm by not choosing to go organic.

For more information on pesticides in produce, visit the Environmental Working Group's Shopper's Guide.
58 yo male at diagnosis - T1bN0, 0/15 lymph nodes, low grade/moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma
03/2016 colonoscopy #1: 2 small polyps removed in left colon; CEA = 1.3
04/2016 colonoscopy #2: caecum sessile 3.5 cm polyp piecemeal removed with kind of clear margins
05/2016 CT scan, blood test ...
05/2016 "prophylactic" laparoscopic right hemicolectomy with a few complications (bleeding, leak, infection)
06/2017 CT scan (lower body), colonoscopy OK; CEA = 1.6

User avatar
peanut_8
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:31 pm
Location: Capital of Texas

Re: Salami

Postby peanut_8 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Organic is an interesting topic. Personally, I only splurge on organic chicken, and that's mainly to avoid all the antibiotics that many poultry farmers use.
Terri aka peanut
diagnosed Jan 14, RC stage 2a, age 56
permanent colostomy
MSS
April 14, 28 chemo/rad with Xeloda
June 14 adjuvant Xeloda 6 rounds
currently NED

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5865
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Salami

Postby weisssoccermom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:38 pm

If that's the diet someone wants to follow....great but it's not for everyone. When I was undergoing chemoradiation and my iron levels were low, my rad onc specifically told me to eat more red meat...totally contradictory to that diet.

I'm not going to give up my weekly weekend steak and my Friday night hamburger and any random red meat meal that I choose to make and I suspect that there are others on this board who feel the same way. While I don't drink, I know many people do enjoy their evening glass of wine and I highly suspect that they will continue to drink it regardless of what some entity tells them 'might' be good for them. Eating anything in moderation is a good idea but, IMO, limiting oneself to foods that they don't necessarily enjoy or want to eat all the time and restricting someone's choice of foods isn't going to work for most people. I didn't work my tail off to get to where I am only to be unhappy because I am on some 'plant based' diet. To each his own. I figure if I'm going to have a recurrence, I'm going to get it anyway so I might as well live my life to the fullest and enjoy every day.
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

mpbser
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:30 am

From what I understand about modern health science, the two basic variables are genetics v. environment. Environment is an all-encompassing term for the macro environs, inputs such as water and air pollution, radiation, etc., and micro environs, inputs such as diet (with sub category of microbiome), exercise, other lifestyle factors, etc. My husband has no inherited genetic mutation linked to his cancer, so I consider the cause to be entirely environmental/diet/lifestyle/etc.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18
5/18 NED

User avatar
Atoq
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:31 am

Re: Salami

Postby Atoq » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:35 am

mpbser wrote:From what I understand about modern health science, the two basic variables are genetics v. environment. Environment is an all-encompassing term for the macro environs, inputs such as water and air pollution, radiation, etc., and micro environs, inputs such as diet (with sub category of microbiome), exercise, other lifestyle factors, etc. My husband has no inherited genetic mutation linked to his cancer, so I consider the cause to be entirely environmental/diet/lifestyle/etc.

It can also be a random mutation (copy mistake) in the colon that was not detected by the immunsystem. And we don’t know yet all possible hereditary causes of cancer.

Claudia
45 year old, mother of 2
Dx rectal cancer October 2017
At least T3N2aMX (suspect metastasis to one lung 8 mm)
Lynch negative
Neoadjuvant chemoradiotherapy Xeloda + 25x2 Gy
05.12.17 laparotomic surgery for blockage, colostomy
25.01.18 laparotomic lar, hysterectomy, ileostomy
05.03.18 core needle biopsy of lung, updated to stage IV
07.05.18 CAT scan, lung metastasis 11 mm
04.06.18 ileostomy reversal
26.06.18 wedge VATS surgery

cbsmith
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:45 am
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Salami

Postby cbsmith » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Atoq wrote:
mpbser wrote:From what I understand about modern health science, the two basic variables are genetics v. environment. Environment is an all-encompassing term for the macro environs, inputs such as water and air pollution, radiation, etc., and micro environs, inputs such as diet (with sub category of microbiome), exercise, other lifestyle factors, etc. My husband has no inherited genetic mutation linked to his cancer, so I consider the cause to be entirely environmental/diet/lifestyle/etc.

It can also be a random mutation (copy mistake) in the colon that was not detected by the immunsystem. And we don’t know yet all possible hereditary causes of cancer.

Claudia


I was diagnosed with FAP at 36 years old. No one in my family has it, it was just a random copy mistake mutation. So even if no family has genetics that would cause colon cancer it doesn’t rule out a genetic issue for your husband.
06/14-DX with FAP as 36yo Male
07/14-total colectomy, rectum removal, permanent ileostomy
08/14-DX Stage IIIC colon cancer KRAS mutant, MSS
09/14-12 rounds of FOLFOX
04/15-ended FOLFOX
07/15-CT showed one para-aortic lymph node, onc thought inflammation and said wait 3 mths
10/15-DX Stage IV, CT showed lymph node tripled in size and 1 small lung met
11/15-FOLFIRI + Avastin
06/16-lymph node is stable, now have a 2nd lung met
01/16-lymph node is stable, lung mets grown 2mm. Still on FOLFIRI + Avastin

mpbser
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Salami

Postby mpbser » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:51 pm

I'd be willing to bet it was the decades of a sedentary lifestyle full of cigars, morbid obesity of close to 400 pounds, primarily denatured foods, e.g. red and processed meat, sugar, and no DNA-correcting foods (those with chlorophyll) at all, alcohol, and stress.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 - Lap left hemi
Adenocarcinoma
5 x 4 x 1 cm
low grade
T3 N2b M1a
Stage IV A
lymph nodes: 9 of 54
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd tumor 5.5 cm T1 N0
CEA: 1.4, 2.1, 1.5, 1.9, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1, 2.4, 1.7, 2.0
MSS/MSI-L
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry: Normal MLH1, MSH2, MSH6, and PMS2
Tumor DNA variants: MTOR, APC, TP53
Liver left hepatectomy seg 4 1/31/18
5/18 NED

User avatar
LPL
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:49 am
Location: Europe

Re: Salami

Postby LPL » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:55 pm

mpbser wrote:I'd be willing to bet it was the decades of a sedentary lifestyle full of cigars, morbid obesity of close to 400 pounds, primarily denatured foods, e.g. red and processed meat, sugar, and no DNA-correcting foods (those with chlorophyll) at all, alcohol, and stress.

I hear you mpbser!
Sendentary lifestyle and Stress!!! was my husband’s world before CRC. He had some.. but not a lot of extra kilo before diagnose. With the help of our dog, he now walks for 1.5 hours before breakfast and he has lost weight and looks like a new person (Yes!! I know the outside do not count.).
However, (apart from eating tree nuts), he still eats his normal diet. Yes he does eat vegetables but also a lot of chicken, meat and ‘salami’ and he drinks his wine. He is trying to live life and feel good. I like to see him getting stronger and I am supporting as best I can. It is hard to know... but maybe feeling good and relaxed is important too??
DH @ 65 DX 4/11/16 CC recto-sigmoid junction
Adenocarcenoma pt 35x15x9mm G3(biopsi) G1(surgical)
Mets 3 Liver resectable
T4aN1bM1a Stage IVa 2/9 LN
MSS, KRAS-mut G13D
CEA & CA19-9: 5/18 2.5 78 8/17 1.4 48 2/14/17 1.8 29
4 Folfox 6/15-7/30 (b4 liver surgery) 8 after
CT: 8/8 no change 3/27/17 NED for now :D
:!: Steroid induced hyperglycemia dx after 3chemo .. hospitalized, insulin -> Metformin
Surgeries (open):
3/18 Emergency colostomy 5/23 Primary+gallbl+colostomy reversal (+port) 9/01 Liver mets

NHMike
Posts: 1537
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Salami

Postby NHMike » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:58 pm

It sounds like it counteracts stress which is a good thing.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: Stage 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 x 4.5 x 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda +radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 x 2.2 x 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx 8 cycles 12/17-6/18


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