Tagamet and MCP

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Eleda
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:28 am
Facebook Username: adele Morgan
Location: Ireland

Tagamet and MCP

Postby Eleda » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Is anybody taking Tagmet ( cemitadine ) and modified citrus pectin prior and after surgery to avoid surgery induced metastasis???
SWF, 47
Mom to 3 sons 6/8/12
Dec4th 2017 colonoscopy for minor intermittent rectal bleeding during Summer
CEA 4.4
DX T3 L3C M0 2.5/3 cm above AV.
JAN 3RD started 1650mg Zelda 2xday, with 28 radiation
Did tagamet 800mg daily and 75mg IV VIT C WEEKLY UNTIL SURGERY and
Tumor reduce by 80% 1 LN still remaining
TATME May10th, temp illeostomy
10/07/2018 CEA 3
MMR INTACT
Began FOLFOX July 10th
24/08/2018 Allergic reaction so next infusion lucovorin and 5fu
CEA 4
Second attempt with oxi aug 12th

rp1954
Posts: 1521
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Tagamet and MCP

Postby rp1954 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:48 pm

Yes we did and it all worked great, but we added a lot more stuff. The MCP was hard to stir cleanly and we often only used 5 grams per day instead of 15 grams. To anybody who uses cimetidine, I would suggest getting at least one CA199 blood test, preferably with ESR (inflammation), hSCRP (inflammation), HgbA1C (sugar), LDH and TSH (thyroid) before the surgery for comparison and best use. In retrospect we could have used even more vitamin D3, and did so on the next surgery.

CA199 is one of two companion markers to best target cimetidine (the other, CSLEX1, a particular CD15s antibody marker is really hard to get done, Tissue CA199 does 90% of the "work"). Your surgeon or oncologist will almost certainly be ignorant and misinformed about their history and literature for CRC; all of ours were simply out of the loop. Seems like there is not much oncological advertising and entertainment budget for a 10 cent pill....
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

lovelife789
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:28 am

Re: Tagamet and MCP

Postby lovelife789 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:35 am

To anybody who uses cimetidine, I would suggest getting at least one CA199 blood test, preferably with ESR (inflammation), hSCRP (inflammation), HgbA1C (sugar), LDH and TSH (thyroid) before the surgery for comparison and best use. In retrospect we could have used even more vitamin D3, and did so on the next surgery.


Hey RP1954,

Would you mind sharing more details of this? I'm currently taking Cimetidine (which my onc doesn't really buy...) and I will need to convince him the reason of doing the CA199 blood test (let alone all the other ones...). Appreciate it!
F/38 - Dx 8 Mar 17, CEA 189.5
Stage IV Sig. Colon, Liver mets, T3N0M1a, KRAS NRAS Wild, G2=Mod. differentiated
3/17- 6/17 - 6 rounds of FOLFOX + Erbitux - CEA 2.5
7/17 - 1st Liver resect/Colon/Gall, all clear margin
8/17 - 2nd Liver resec
9-12/17' - completed 13 rounds of FOLFOX - CEA 1.0
1/18 - 6/30 - NED
6/30 - PET SCAN showed a lung nodule that grew from 5mm to 8mm - CEA 1.0
8/30 - VATs
8/30 - 4/30 - NED
5/28 - uptake seen in 1 x PALN, 1x common iliac, cloudy in Liver
FOLFIRI + Avastin

rp1954
Posts: 1521
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Tagamet and MCP

Postby rp1954 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:49 am

When did you start taking cimetidine ?

The first CA199 test, best before chemo or radiation or surgery, can be used to improve a guess whether cimetidine should help interfere with your cancer cells' metastasis and immune defeating processes or not. A CRC patient whose cancer tissues are high in both CA199 and CSLEX1 markers is a very high risk patient, likely due to high HIF-1a, or HIF-2a content/activity, and likely having (some or many) KRAS mutant or BRAF mutant cells.

If the CA199 test is less than 2, at any time, the Japanese intepretation was that cimetidine biologically, categorically couldn't help long term 5FU treatment, about 8-10% of CRC patients.

As the unstimulated test values increase, the likelihood of CA199 values reflecting bad cancer processes rises. Thyroid problems, inflammation, excess sugarm chemo, radiation can stimulate CA199 blood values, hence the extra panels. If various extra panels are steady then CA199 readings are likely directly comparable, like CEA. Some less drastic diseases or other cancer may increase CA199. The Japanese results suggest that cimetidine for CA199 helps other cancer somewhat too.

If there is a really serious question about cimetidine utility, then stain the pathology samples for CA199 and CSLEX1. The Japanese research published in the 2000s shows them to be far better companion markers for cimetidine than any tests he has for Erbitux.

Western research is simply studying these selectin (t)issues to death (guess whose...), presumably for new expensive answers. 2017, 2018 papers

In competent hands, Matsumoto (2002) and the subsequent Japanese papers are like a Rosetta stone. If I recall correctly, Life Extension Foundation started sounding the clarion about cimetidine in the 1980s, sialyl Lewis epitopes (selectins) in the late 1990s, and then recommending Imclone (long merged away) for the staining DIY.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

Tupelo honey
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:57 pm

Re: Tagamet and MCP

Postby Tupelo honey » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:20 am

Eleda wrote:Is anybody taking Tagmet ( cemitadine ) and modified citrus pectin prior and after surgery to avoid surgery induced metastasis???


I used both. So far, so good.
Rectal Cancer Stage 3A 10-22-2015 T2N1M0
Start Chemo radiation 11/2015
LAR TME w/ total hysterectomy 3/14/2016 pT2N1M0 No ileo, straight connect
Start Xelox 4/21/16 1 week on/1 week off
Switch to Xelox 2 weeks on/1 week off 6/1/2016
Supplements: Curcumin, PSK, Celixicob, Cimetidime, Glutamine, L-Acytel Carnitine, Vit D, Vit B6, Vit B12, magnesium, calcium, aspirin, metformin, modified citrus pectin
10/2016 NED
03/2017 NED
07/2017 NED
11/2017 NED
05/2018 NED
11/2018 NED

Eleda
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:28 am
Facebook Username: adele Morgan
Location: Ireland

Re: Tagamet and MCP

Postby Eleda » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:34 am

Thanks for the replies, im going to see if the doc will do my ca199- ,but if not I think I'll still go ahead and tKe it prior to surgery next month, I'm already taking other supplements, so eont fo any harm
Thanks
ADELE
SWF, 47
Mom to 3 sons 6/8/12
Dec4th 2017 colonoscopy for minor intermittent rectal bleeding during Summer
CEA 4.4
DX T3 L3C M0 2.5/3 cm above AV.
JAN 3RD started 1650mg Zelda 2xday, with 28 radiation
Did tagamet 800mg daily and 75mg IV VIT C WEEKLY UNTIL SURGERY and
Tumor reduce by 80% 1 LN still remaining
TATME May10th, temp illeostomy
10/07/2018 CEA 3
MMR INTACT
Began FOLFOX July 10th
24/08/2018 Allergic reaction so next infusion lucovorin and 5fu
CEA 4
Second attempt with oxi aug 12th


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