Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

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mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby mpbser » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Husband and I met with the oncology nurse on Friday. She neglected to mention any of the severe side effects that can happen with chemo, oxi- in particular, such as blood clots, heart problems, liver damage, etc. She also stated that "chemo only kills cancer cells" which obviously isn't true. I wasn't in the mood for a debate, but how on earth can medical professionals get away with saying such BS?

Rant/vent over.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

Beckster
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby Beckster » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:55 pm

mpbser wrote:Husband and I met with the oncology nurse on Friday. She neglected to mention any of the severe side effects that can happen with chemo, oxi- in particular, such as blood clots, heart problems, liver damage, etc. She also stated that "chemo only kills cancer cells" which obviously isn't true. I wasn't in the mood for a debate, but how on earth can medical professionals get away with saying such BS?

Rant/vent over.


Oh...I totally agree. When they mentioned side effects with oxi, they made it sound like it was an inconvenience. Stupid me didn't ask too many questions and on my first infusion, I went into an anaphylactic reaction and almost died! I made it through 3 hours and it happened when I got up to leave. If this happened on my way home, I would not be here today. the nurse called me the next day to ask how I was feeling...she said that it usually does not happen until the second infusion...really???? Maybe the 130ml was too much for my body. When I was first diagnosed, everything happened so quickly that I did not have time to research and advocate for myself....lesson learned!
57/F
DX:(CC) 10/19/16
11/4/16- Lap right hemi(cecum)
CEA- Pre Op (1.9), Pre Chemo (2.5)
Type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size:3.5 cm x 2.5 x 0.7 cm
Grade: G3
TNM: T3N0M0/IIA
LN: 0/24
LVI present
Surgical margins: clear
MSS
12/27/2016 - Capeox, anaphylactic
1/2/17 to 6/9/17- Xeloda
6/17,12/17,6/18,12/18,6/19,12/19,12/20,12/21 CT Scan NED :D
CEA- 6/17- 3.6, 9/17- 2.8 12/17-2.8, 3/18-3.1, 6/18-3.0, 9/18 2.8, 12/18 2.5 3/19 3.1 6/19 3.1 9/19 2.6 12/19 2.8 6/20 3.0 12/20 2.7 6/21 2.9,[color=#000000]12/21 2.7[/color]
Clear Colonoscopy 10/17, 11/19,11/21 :D

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby mpbser » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:02 pm

Beckster, Did you not receive Benadryl with your infusion? The plan is for husband to get a dose of benadryl one hour or so before they start the infusion. There are a couple of other medications they also will be administering then to counteract adverse reactions, although I can't recall what they are off the top of my head. Thanks for your story, because I appreciate the heads up about paying attention for hours/days afterwards!
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

Beckster
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby Beckster » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:07 pm

mpbser wrote:Beckster, Did you not receive Benadryl with your infusion? The plan is for husband to get a dose of benadryl one hour or so before they start the infusion. There are a couple of other medications they also will be administering then to counteract adverse reactions, although I can't recall what they are off the top of my head. Thanks for your story, because I appreciate the heads up about paying attention for hours/days afterwards!


They gave me stuff before the infusion and when the reaction occurred, they started to desensitize me, but it was not working...they than injected an EpiPen. Because of the oxi and reacting to cold, they were giving me breathing treatments, which actually made it worse. They called the ambulance and I was in the hospital for 3 hours. They sent me home with 2 EpiPens.
57/F
DX:(CC) 10/19/16
11/4/16- Lap right hemi(cecum)
CEA- Pre Op (1.9), Pre Chemo (2.5)
Type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size:3.5 cm x 2.5 x 0.7 cm
Grade: G3
TNM: T3N0M0/IIA
LN: 0/24
LVI present
Surgical margins: clear
MSS
12/27/2016 - Capeox, anaphylactic
1/2/17 to 6/9/17- Xeloda
6/17,12/17,6/18,12/18,6/19,12/19,12/20,12/21 CT Scan NED :D
CEA- 6/17- 3.6, 9/17- 2.8 12/17-2.8, 3/18-3.1, 6/18-3.0, 9/18 2.8, 12/18 2.5 3/19 3.1 6/19 3.1 9/19 2.6 12/19 2.8 6/20 3.0 12/20 2.7 6/21 2.9,[color=#000000]12/21 2.7[/color]
Clear Colonoscopy 10/17, 11/19,11/21 :D

cbsmith
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:45 am
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby cbsmith » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:17 pm

Benadryl is not normally given prior to treatment unless there are issues with reactions.
06/14-DX with FAP as 36yo Male
07/14-total colectomy, rectum removal, permanent ileostomy
08/14-DX Stage IIIC, KRAS mutant, MSS
09/14-04/15 - 12 rounds of FOLFOX
07/15-CT showed para-aortic lymph node, onc thght inflammation
10/15-DX Stage IV, CT lymph node tripled in size, 1 small lung met
11/15-FOLFIRI + Avastin
06/16-lymph node is stable, now have a 2nd lung met
01/16-lymph node is stable, lung mets grown 2mm. Still on FOLFIRI + Avastin
11/17 - no chemo since. Lung growth minimal, lymph node is stable

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby mpbser » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:52 pm

Wow, Beckster. That's good information for us to know.

cbsmith, husband's oncologist does it as routine standard, apparently. I'd be interested to know what other's experience is with this, because standards of care can differ widely.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

NHMike
Posts: 2555
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby NHMike » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:58 pm

I had a ChemoTrain session with the oncology nurse a week before I started. There was a package of seven or eight sheets of papers with side-effects, dietary recommendations, when to call 911 to go to the hospital, when to call the on-call person 7x24, to avoid getting sick, avoid cuts, etc. We went through the whole thing. It seems like this should be Standard Operating Procedure stuff. This was a local hospital too, not a top-notch place.

The Oncology Nurse didn't say that chemo only kills cancer cells but I didn't ask. I already knew what standard chemo does. The targeted chemo drugs may just kill cancer cells but not stuff like 5FU and the stuff that usually goes with it. I think that you have to study a lot of this stuff on your own to gain control over your treatment.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 4.5 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8; 5/1 2.8; 5/29 3.2; 7/13 4.5; 8/9 2.8, 2/12 1.2
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 2.2 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx (8) 12/17-6/18
7/18: Reversal, Port Removal
2/19: Clean CT

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby mpbser » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:17 pm

Indeed: "you have to study a lot of this stuff on your own to gain control over your treatment."

The nurse went over quite a bit with us as well. She also gave us books to take home and read. I haven't had a chance to look at them yet.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

AbbyDoo
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:25 am
Location: So.Ca.

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby AbbyDoo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:40 am

Oh I think I would be livid if this happened to me. I would be out to have someone fired or transferred to a different department.
My first infusion was a very long day, my oncologist spent about an hour with me explaining all the possibility, then a meeting with the pharmacist and another meeting with a social worker. I signed a bunch of papers stating I knew what each drug was and possible side affects. I left with a folder and spec sheets with each drug I was going to be using.
Every nurse I have encountered in the chemo lounge has been the most kind and helpful person going. I don't know where they grow these special nurses butt they are awesome
53 yrs old
4/30/15 colonoscopy Mass found
5/21/15 staged 3 C rectal cancer
7/3/15 finished xeloda and radiation 28 rounds
9/30/15 LAR
10/29/15 picc line installed
11/2/15 start chemo 5 fu Oxaliplatin
3/7/16 Finish Chemo
4/29/16 Ileostomy Reversal.
7/13/16 colonoscopy clear.
CRC survivors know there Sh%t

User avatar
ANDRETEXAS
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:01 am
Location: Austin, Texas (University of Tennessee alumnus)

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby ANDRETEXAS » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:35 am

I must have been a lucky one. My only symptoms were cold sensitivity and neuropathy. After 3 1/2 years, my neuropathy has reduced by about 50% I would guess. Good luck to you and your husband.
2/10/14 - Colon resect
2/13 - DX- Stage IIIb
6 of 18 lymph nodes cancerous
3/7 - Port placed
3/11 - FOLFOX (12 rds w/full oxi)
8/14 - Chemo finish
8/25 - CT- Inc
9/5 - clean PET
12/10- clean CT

3/2/15 - Clean colonoscopy & port removed
3/4 - clean CT
9/21- clean CT

3/23/16 - clean CT

2/22/17- clean CT

3/21/18 - clean CT
4/1 - clean colonoscopy

3/11/19 - clean CT
9/23 - Five-year release - Annual visits now !

4/13/23 - clean colonoscopy

ONE DAY AT A TIME !

Volfan
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby Volfan » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:17 am

Doc at first visit spent over an 1 1/2 hours going over the treatment and possible side effects. Then on treatment day the chemo nurse spent close to 45 minutes going over every drug and side effects.
Also I get Benadryl every treatment.
Next week I will no longer get oxi. Just avastin and the pills and doc will still give me Benadryl.
Stage IV Rectal cancer with liver mets
Oxaliplatin, avastin, 5fu
48 yr dude

User avatar
LPL
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:49 am
Location: Europe

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby LPL » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:13 pm

My hubby has been treated in France.
No info that I recall was given about the side effects of Folfox apart from cold sensitivity & neuropathy but I had studied on my own and knew of other side effects. BUT at the 1st treatment it is obviously standard at his cancer center to be an in house patient (for 2nights) and checked all the time, until they disconnect the 5FU.
DH @ 65 DX 4/11/16 CC recto-sigmoid junction
Adenocarcenoma 35x15x9mm G3(biopsi) G1(surgical)
Mets 3 Liver resectable
T4aN1bM1a IVa 2/9 LN
MSS, KRAS-mut G13D
CEA & CA19-9: 5/18 2.5 78 8/17 1.4 48 2/14/17 1.8 29
4 Folfox 6/15-7/30 (b4 liver surgery) 8 after
CT: 8/8 no change 3/27/17 NED->Jan-19 mets to lung NED again Oct-19 :)
:!: Steroid induced hyperglycemia dx after 3chemo
Surgeries 2016: 3/18 Emergency colostomy
5/23 Primary+gallbl+stoma reversal+port 9/1 Liver mets
RFA 2019: Feb & Oct lung mets

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WriterGirl1969
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:48 pm
Location: Central NY

Re: Chemo only kills cancer cells??? RANT/VENT

Postby WriterGirl1969 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:51 pm

mpbser wrote:Husband and I met with the oncology nurse on Friday. She neglected to mention any of the severe side effects that can happen with chemo, oxi- in particular, such as blood clots, heart problems, liver damage, etc. She also stated that "chemo only kills cancer cells" which obviously isn't true. I wasn't in the mood for a debate, but how on earth can medical professionals get away with saying such BS?

Rant/vent over.


Totally understand your rant. If there's one thing I found in my journey, it's that if I wanted information I had to find it here, I wasn't going to get it from the doctor(s). I was very lucky to find an awesome surgeon, but I had to fight with my oncologist on a number of fronts. Thankfully I've found a new oncologist now, who seems much more interactive and responsive.

Yes, chemo is quite abusive to the body. Not everyone has all of those side-effects, but nearly everyone has at least some. I've just hit the one year post treatment mark this month, and I still feel as if I'm dealing with post-chemo stuff. I did not have the oxa due to pre-existing neuropathy, but I've heard plenty of tough things about that drug. Some feel it's worth it for the extra potential success percentage (although the percentage number varies depending on which study you read), others not so much. Personally I'm glad I skipped it.

Don't be afraid to push the doctors to be more forthcoming, or to get second or even third opinions on treatment. Be your own advocate. Fight for the care hubby deserves. And I, for one, totally feel you on medical professionals getting away with COMPLETE BS! :roll:

--WriterGirl
DX 3/4/2016 Colon Cancer; age 46 Mom of then 4-yr-old
Stage IIIB: T3N1M0
3/31/16 Surgery
4 to 10/2016: Xeloda Monotherapy
CEA: 10/16 0.56, 1/17 0.54
CT CLEAR: 3/6/17; 4/17/18; 4/16/19
NED 3 years
“If I can help somebody as I walk along, then my living shall not be in vain.”


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