Things people say or don't say but it's okay

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mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby mpbser » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:02 am

First, the things people say that get under my skin:

* "It's sooooooo ssssaaaaaaadddddd." (overheard my aunt saying this a month or so ago in reference to my husband and me)

ME: Okay, yes, I wasn't exactly thrilled to experience the past half year so soon after husband and I got married. I would have liked a lot longer than a year and a few months before we got to the "in sickness" part of our vows. Given how unhealthy my husband's diet and lifestyle had been, I expected him to have serious health issues in the future, but I pictured that happening when we approached 60. I was unaware until recently that he had been up to over 400 lbs at his heaviest sometime in his 30s, so I did not realize just how extremely unhealthy he was at an earlier time.

But, no, no, it's not sooooooo ssssaaaaaaadddddd. This isn't a death sentence (even though he has chosen to do chemo). When we use the prognosis calculator at Memorial Sloan Kettering's website, the predicted rate of disease-free survival at 5 years is 87 or 88% (I can't recall exactly which) and of disease-free survival at 10 years is around 81%. I don't think that makes for a sad situation in the least. Sure, chemo will take its toll and the next year or so will be really rough, but we will get through it.

* On a similar note -- "I'm soooooooo soooorrrrrryyyyyyy to hear about M---" as if he died. ME: You haven't even heard the details. All you know is that he has the dreaded "c" word as if it's like he's dead already. You've already written a eulogy and checked your wardrobe for a black outfit. Put them away, you won't be needing them for a long, long time.

Now, the things I would greatly appreciate hearing:

* Bowel cancer is probably one of the cancers where lifestyle habits have the highest impact on risk. (ME: no duh) Therefore, lifestyle habits have the highest impact on cure. In other words, when it is estimated that 47% of colorectal cancers could be prevented by appropriate lifestyles, it stands to reason that CRC could be reversed by extremely healthy lifestyles. Besides, it couldn't hurt to try and if husband is doing chemo, it certainly would help to try to be in the best physical shape possible to counteract the damaging effects of such treatment.

There are decades of research on these subjects. Lately, new studies provide these findings in greater detail and higher specificity. Let me share them with you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3950624/
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/871613/
https://www.livescience.com/8837-5-life ... ancer.html
http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v109/ ... 3310a.html

* The World Health Organization has recently classified processed meat as a Group I human carcinogen. Red meat has been classified as Group 2A, which means probably carcinogenic to humans. Your husband would likely benefit from dramatically reducing his consumption of these.

http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/
https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/ ... r240_E.pdf

ME: This also has been known for a long time. It's only now being confirmed by the WHO.

* Cancer feeds on fructose. Your husband would likely benefit from dramatically reducing his consumption of high fructose corn syrup. (ME: Awesome. We will kill two birds with one stone there because he's mitigating his diabetes with diet.) Tumor cells feed on sugar (glucose), but the tumor cells use fructose for cell division in order to speed up the growth and spread of the cancer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magaz ... .html?_r=2
Cancer Res. 2010 Aug 1;70(15):6368-76. Epub 2010 Jul 20. PMID: 20647326
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer ... ion-cancer
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/resear ... ses-cancer

* An animal study found that bromelain (an enzyme found in the core of pineapples) has anti-tumor properties superior to 5-FU. Your husband might benefit from ensuring his supplements contain bromelain. (ME: They do.)

Planta Med. 2007 Oct;73(13):1377-83. Epub 2007 Sep 24. PMID: 17893836
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/pin ... uorouracil

* Cancer may not be a strict random mutation process, but an ancient survival program unmasked. New developments in immunology and genetics have confirmed the science behind the paradigm shift away from the idea that cancer is something bad that happens to the body, to something the body does in order to survive vis-à-vis an increasingly toxic and nutrient-deprived environment. ME: That's interesting!

Cancer: A de-repression of a default survival program common to all cells?: A life-history perspective on the nature of cancer. Bioessays. 2012 Jan ;34(1):72-82. Epub 2011 Nov 22. PMID: 22105565
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer ... m-unmasked
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cure-c ... tanding-it
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/has-ca ... understood
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/nichol ... ory-cancer
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer-just-crapshoot
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer ... ic-disease

* Beta glucans (found in medicinal mushrooms) have been shown to have anti-cancer properties in addition to being well-known modulators of host immunity. It's also safe and effective for suppressing the adverse effects of chemotherapy as well as improving quality of life.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/bet ... r-patients
Hepatogastroenterology. 2009 Mar-Apr;56(90):437-41. PMID: 19579616
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/bet ... -improving
Anticancer Res. 2009 Jul;29(7):2611-7. PMID: 19596936
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/sol ... r9-agonist
J Leukoc Biol. 2015 Dec ;98(6):1015-25. Epub 2015 Aug 21. PMID: 26297795
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/mus ... sion-tumor
Biomed Res Int. 2015 ;2015:604385. Epub 2015 Jun 17. PMID: 26167490
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/phe ... programmed
Phytother Res. 2009 Dec 8. Epub 2009 Dec 8. PMID: 19998418

* Research shows vitamin D prevents cancer. Your husband should make sure to get enough sunlight and/or Vitamin D.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/rev ... es-cancers
Anticancer Res. 2012 Jan ;32(1):223-36. PMID: 22213311
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/ult ... th-vitamin
Photochem Photobiol Sci. 2016 Sep 8. Epub 2016 Aug 8. PMID: 27714313
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/dou ... -mortality
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2011 Jul 6. Epub 2011 Jul 6. PMID: 21731036
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/ult ... adjunctive
Med Hypotheses. 2006;66(6):1152-6. Epub 2006 Feb 17. PMID: 16483725

* I saw on http://believebig.org/ that mistletoe extract has been used in Europe for decades. ME: Unfortunately, the nearest doctor who provides this treatment is located an hour away in a direction husband never goes. He probably would not go out of the way for this unless there was more definitive research.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/mistle ... ncer-cells

* I heard turmeric has very strong anti-cancer properties. ME: Yes! This was covered in the "what supplements do you take?" thread, if you care to see.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/turmer ... malignancy

* You should also check out ginger. It could help with chemo-induced nausea and in other ways. ME: Sweet! Let me check that out!

Cancer Manag Res. 2017 ;9:11-18. Epub 2017 Jan 31. PMID: 28203106
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/dai ... s-been-sho
Support Care Cancer. 2012 Jul ;20(7):1479-89. Epub 2011 Aug 5. PMID: 21818642
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/gin ... ced-nausea
Pediatr Blood Cancer. 2010 Sep 14. Epub 2010 Sep 14. PMID: 20842754
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/gin ... emotherapy
Biomed Pharmacother. 2017 May 2 ;91:415-424. Epub 2017 May 2. PMID: 28475920
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/phe ... in-b1-indu
Eur J Nutr. 2017 Feb 22. Epub 2017 Feb 22. PMID: 28229277
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/com ... nticancer-
Int J Prev Med. 2013 Apr ;4(Suppl 1):S36-42. PMID: 23717767
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/rev ... n-diseases

* I know you have been very focused on your health since your mother died of atheroschlerosis in 2000 and especially so since 2011 when you discovered you had a genetic heterozygous SNP on your MTHFR gene and you had early atheroschlerosis. With your lifestyle so different from M---'s and your skepticism about conventional treatments, it must be a challenging household environment. ME: Well, thank goodness M--- has decided to control his diabetes with diet because now I don't face the temptations from constant supplies of donuts, cookies, cakes, and the like in our kitchen. Relatively speaking, he has made drastic changes in his diet to the point where I don't have to make entirely separate meals for us all the time.

* On the same note, M--- has decided to do chemotherapy and we know that you are very wary about it and would not chose it if you had cancer. ME: Yes, M---- has decided to follow doctor recommendations, although only when double and triple checked. However, he is very open to the idea of complementing conventional treatment with alternatives. In fact, he has already begun taking supplements and will continue to do so. We will be adjusting them as needed.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/integr ... -radiation

* Not all the cancer research has been corrupted by the all mighty dollar. ME: Well, that's a relief! How do I know the difference between the corrupt and non-corrupt "science"?

Begley C.G. & Ellis L. 2012. Drug development: Raise standards for preclinical cancer research. Nature. 483: 531–533 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 3531a.html
Nature. 485 (41) (03 May 2012) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5041e.html
American Cancer Society. 2012. Cancer Facts and Figures. Available online at: http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/conten ... 031941.pdf
Irwin B, Hirsch BR, Samsa GP, Abernethy AP. 2012. Conflict of interest disclosure in off-label oncology clinical trials. J Oncol Pract. 8(5):298-302. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23277767
Norris SL, Holmer HK, Ogden LA, Burda BU. 2011. Conflict of interest in clinical practice guideline development: a systematic review. PLoS One. 6(10):e25153. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22039406
Jagsi R. 2009. 29 percent of cancer studies report conflict of interest. University of Michigan Health System. Available online at: http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/1147canc ... f-interest
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/could- ... untruthful

* Your husband is taking 1g of vitamin C daily. Is that enough? I heard that high doses of IV vitamin C is selectively toxic to cancer cells if given intravenously. ME: Interesting! My doctor in NYC who I saw in 2000-2001 does IV vitamin C. I'm not sure husband wants to go through with it, though, because he hates needles and he's already being poked and prodded enough. We'll see...

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/intrav ... d-cancer-1

* I heard that blueberries have chemoprotective properties. ME: My husband despises the taste of blueberry. In fact, he despises the taste of pretty much every fruit and vegetable except a handful (carrots, potatoes, green beans, and broccoli).

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/do-blu ... ng-cancers
Chi-Ming Lee, Yen-Hao Su, Thanh-Tuan Huynh, Wei-Hwa Lee, Jeng-Fong Chiou, Yen-Kuang Lin, Michael Hsiao, Chih-Hsiung Wu, Yuh-Feng Lin, Alexander T H Wu, Chi-Tai Yeh. BlueBerry Isolate, Pterostilbene, Functions as a Potential Anticancer Stem Cell Agent in Suppressing Irradiation-Mediated Enrichment of Hepatoma Stem Cells. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2013 ;2013:258425. Epub 2013 Jun 26. PMID: 23878592
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/resear ... y-kills-it

Blueberries are full of antioxidants and flavonoids that help prevent cell damage. Antioxidants work by neutralizing free radicals, atoms that contain an odd number of electrons and are highly unstable. Free radicals can cause the type of cellular damage ("oxidation", the same process that leads to CVD. Side note: Oxidative stress and inflammation are closely related pathophysiological processes, one of which can be easily induced by another.) that is a big factor in cancer development. Many other fruits and vegetables contain cancer-protective antioxidants, flavonoids, and polyphenols.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/phyton ... lon-cancer
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer-fighting-foods
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/eat-mo ... ncer-risks

* I heard magnesium lowers colon cancer risk. Only about 20% of Americans get the recommended daily magnesium intake of 420 mg for men or 320 mg for women. ME: Americans also "enrich" white flour, which they consume a LOT of, with folic acid which also has been linked to cancer. Perhaps these factors, magnesium deprivation, excess folic acid (in 2009, before I found my current doctor, my serum folic acid level was 22 units, which is around 22x higher than the top of the threshold), and Monsanto pesticides, play a large role in the high incidence of colon cancer in the United States.

Magnesium intake and risk of colorectal cancer: a meta-analysis of prospective studies. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2012) 66, 1182–1186; doi:10.1038/ejcn.2012.135; published online 3 October 2012
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/magnes ... ancer-risk

* Cancer proliferates in an acidic environment. ME: I recall hearing this years ago so we have been drinking alkalized water lately, just in case this is true.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/chr ... nd-reduced
Clin Exp Metastasis. 2011 Dec ;28(8):841-9. Epub 2011 Aug 23. PMID: 21861189
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/las ... idic-tumor
Oncogene. 2012 May 14. Epub 2012 May 14. PMID: 22580606
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/nutrit ... hould-know

* Chipsa hospital in Mexico has had great success in reversing cancer with a combination of natural and conventional therapies. My friend with Stage IV blood cancer who is being treated there with good success so far has been spreading the word. Go see his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/eric.vincelette

There are thousands and thousands of other comments I could write, but that would take way too much time. See for yourself: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/disease/cancers-all

I share all this with my husband who is both extremely intelligent and open minded which is why I love him so much.
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

inorganic8
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:13 pm

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby inorganic8 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Lots to digest here, butt thank you for taking the time to post all of this. I had read about antioxidants in blueberries as well. DH loves blueberries. I get him a blueberry pomegranate juice mix that he likes.

I am in full agreement that high fructose corn syrup is the devil.

It sounds like your DH is using some conventional treatment with diet changes and supplements. I hope it works wonders. He's lucky to have such a devoted partner.
Wife to DH with CRC
Stage IV Diagnosis 1/27/17, Mets to Liver, Omentum, Peri
KRAS Mutation, G12, MSS
Folfirinox 2/8/17
Folfiri 6/14/17
Nov. scan - disease progression
1/24/18 15-hour HIPEC surgery.
June 2018 It's back, starting Stivarga
Aug. 2018 stopping Stivarga
Sep. 2018 clinical trial of Keytruda and ibrutanib
Dec. 2018 disease progression, stopped trial
Jan. 2019 small bowel obstruction and surgery
Mar. 2019 clinical trial TAK-164
May 2019 deteriorating rapidly
June 12, 2019 At Peace

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby mpbser » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:47 pm

It's really great that your DH likes blueberries. We here could only be so lucky. My husband loves pro-inflammatory foods. The worse for you, the more he likes it. Practically everything healthy, he doesn't like. Take a potato, for example. The healthiest part, the skins, he doesn't like! Only the unhealthy part!

So, needless to say, cooking meals that are healthy AND that he likes to eat has always been a challenge since we met. Now, with the cancer Dx, it's even more challenging. His diet when we met was absolutely the unhealthiest diet I have ever witnessed. In fact, I had some significant reservations about a relationship with him when we first met because I didn't know how I would be able to handle it. My diet was nearly as unhealthy as his many years ago so I knew it would not be easy.

I will be very curious when he gets his RAS mutation test results back. I would think that his CC has been primarily diet/lifestyle influenced, but it would still be unfortunate to have any genetic predisposition. I don't understand genetics all that well, but if cancer genes are anything like CVD, e.g. platelet coaguability (sp?), genetics, then I hope he's heterogyzous for whatever he might have. Thankfully, it does not appear he has Lynch syndrome.

BTW, blueberry powder has the biggest bang for the buck. I use a scoop of it in tart cherry juice. Delicious!
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

Beckster
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Beckster » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:51 pm

I
will be very curious when he gets his RAS mutation test results back. I would think that his CC has been primarily diet/lifestyle influenced, but it would still be unfortunate to have any genetic predisposition.
I don't understand genetics all that well, but if cancer genes are anything like CVD, e.g. platelet coaguability (sp?), genetics, then I hope he's heterogyzous for whatever he might have. Thankfully, it does not appear he has Lynch syndrome.


Thank you for your post and informative information. Blueberry season is in full bloom in southern NJ. I ate the healthiest in my family and went faithfully for all my screenings except waited a little for my first colonoscopy, but still in my 50s. I remember when I met with the surgeon, I asked him why me? He said that 50% is genetic. I was born to get this.... the other 50% is environmental.
57/F
DX:(CC) 10/19/16
11/4/16- Lap right hemi(cecum)
CEA- Pre Op (1.9), Pre Chemo (2.5)
Type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size:3.5 cm x 2.5 x 0.7 cm
Grade: G3 (path) G2 (pre-op)
TNM: T3N0M0/IIA
LN: 0/24
LVI present
Surgical margins: clear
MSS
12/27/2016 - Capeox, anaphylactic reaction
1/2/17 to 6/9/17- Xeloda monotherapy
6/17,12/17,6/18,12/18, 6/19, 12/19 CT Scan NED :D
CEA- 6/17- 3.6, 9/17- 2.8 12/17-2.8, 3/18-3.1, 6/18-3.0, 9/18 2.8, 12/18 2.5 3/19 3.1 6/19 3.1 9/19 2.6 12/19 2.8 6/20 3.0
Clear Colonoscopy 10/17, 11/19 :D

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby mpbser » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:45 pm

That's an interesting quote from your surgeon, beckster. Do you have a genetic mutation that isn't listed in your signature?
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

ronnieciao
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:58 pm
Location: Northern Italy and UK

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby ronnieciao » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:54 pm

Ah yes. The website ran by the anti-vaccine, Big Pharma conspiracy quack. Thank you for your enlightenment.
DD of Mum, 53
Diagnosed CC Stage IVb, October 2014
Mets to liver, peri, ovaries, bones
Folfox + Panitumumab
5fu+Panitumumab
Folfiri + Avastin
Cetuximab monotherapy
Immunotherapy: Tecenriq (Atezolizumab) single agent trial: failed
Left us Feb 2017

Beckster
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Beckster » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:36 pm

mpbser wrote:That's an interesting quote from your surgeon, beckster. Do you have a genetic mutation that isn't listed in your signature?


No.... My surgeon is a colon rectal specialist and co director of the MD Anderson Gastrointestinal Center in our area. He said that there is always a genetic component. He normally does not see this until the age of 63-65, but I developed it sooner. Since my diagnoses, I found out that my aunt had stage 2 colon cancer 17 years ago, my cousin had the same thing 20 years ago, and my other aunt is a polyp machine. She is now 73 and within 5 years, she had 6 polys ranging from 2mm to 20mm. My mother is the only one who did not have problems. When I had my Lynch testing done, it stated that it was probably sporadic cancer. My onc also specializes in genetics and he also agreed.
Go figure!
57/F
DX:(CC) 10/19/16
11/4/16- Lap right hemi(cecum)
CEA- Pre Op (1.9), Pre Chemo (2.5)
Type: Adenocarcinoma
Tumor size:3.5 cm x 2.5 x 0.7 cm
Grade: G3 (path) G2 (pre-op)
TNM: T3N0M0/IIA
LN: 0/24
LVI present
Surgical margins: clear
MSS
12/27/2016 - Capeox, anaphylactic reaction
1/2/17 to 6/9/17- Xeloda monotherapy
6/17,12/17,6/18,12/18, 6/19, 12/19 CT Scan NED :D
CEA- 6/17- 3.6, 9/17- 2.8 12/17-2.8, 3/18-3.1, 6/18-3.0, 9/18 2.8, 12/18 2.5 3/19 3.1 6/19 3.1 9/19 2.6 12/19 2.8 6/20 3.0
Clear Colonoscopy 10/17, 11/19 :D

SarahS
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:44 pm

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby SarahS » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:50 pm

I love this, being also open minded and maybe just a little bit crazy. If I wasn't already crazy the whole cancer/care giver thing has driven me that way :wink:

I'm very much into nutrition and supplements, always have been even before hubby got his diagnosis.

Now to try and get him to eat a few more fruit and vegetables.
He's never been overweight , quite the opposite so much so that he really can't afford to lose too much in those bad chemo weeks, butt he could certainly stand to eat better
I try making smoothies and juicing which I can sometimes persuade him to drink but it's not something he does for pleasure .
He is pretty good about the supplements though

I go through phases of believing that chemo is the most powerful medicine ever and we would be fools to abandon it and best to stick with it like its some kind of safety net to thinking its all a giant conspiracy and we would be best to do anything butt chemo.
Mostly I fall on the lets not get rid of the safety net side, but it's such an inelegant treatment that it's hard to keep believing that this is the best 21st century cancer medicine can get
Wife and caregiver to husband diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer Nov 2016
Emergency surgery to remove blockage in cecum 12/03/2016
Stage 4 colon cancer. Mets to liver, peritoneum, possibly lungs
K-Ras G12C MSS
01/05/2017 Begin Folfox 6 plus Avastin
CEA pre surgery 114, post surgery 70, 02/2017- 35 03/2017- 23 04/2017- 12

User avatar
CRguy
Posts: 10171
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby CRguy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:28 am

mpbser wrote:......Therefore, lifestyle habits have the highest impact on cure. In other words, when it is estimated that 47% of colorectal cancers could be prevented by appropriate lifestyles, it stands to reason that CRC could be reversed by extremely healthy lifestyles. Besides, it couldn't hurt to try and if husband is doing chemo, it certainly would help to try to be in the best physical shape possible to counteract the damaging effects of such treatment.

Read your full post and will follow a few of the citations ... BUTT with the disclaimer :
I have been here and doing THIS for a shitload of years ... and some referable sources are well vetted, others not so much.

I learned the hard way and have followed "post truth" references for years as part of my own education ...
just so you know, nothing personal ... just IME .. and I have had a shitload of experience as patient, caregiver and as the "doc"

Now to your post :
you have the right attitude, based on some of your musings about "what to say to folks" ... even if you only think it :mrgreen:
Well played

As to the above captioned quote:
sorry your logic is not congruent with philosophical edict
it stands to reason that CRC could be reversed by extremely healthy lifestyles.
presuming that an unhealthy lifestyle CAUSED CRC ... ?
What about other comorbidities ?
What about genetics ?
Would a Lynch syndrome patient with advanced CRC have been "cured" by what ... ?

If a 747 runs out of fuel and crashes ... would refilling the fuel tanks take it airborne again ?
If someone runs down the stairs, falls and breaks a leg ... would having them walk back UP the stairs with crutches repair their fracture ?

I am not attacking YOU as a person, only faulty logic, which sadly as a scientist I see all too often.

SO : If I eat processed meats 24/7 for 10 years and get CRC,
IF I stop and never eat them again, will I be cured ?
What about folks who eat processed meats 24/7 for 10 years and do NOT get CRC ..
IS that a reason to eat processed meats 24/7 for 10 years ?????

IF healthy living does prevent CRC ... I would not have CRC ( please review a few of my other 9,000+ posts to verify this :shock: )
IF healthy living AFTER A CRC diagnosis would REVERSE the cancer ..... reference : ibid I would not have had a recurrence

Healthy living IS a positive, mindful lifestyle choice which, I agree, we should follow.

I did and still do.

It will not CURE cancer.
That is my line in the sand.

Believe what you wish ... BUTT if you choose to have an intelligent conversation with me,
Please bring the facts and bring the logic, and most importantly ...
BRING ME THE RESULTS.

Please consider that I :
am certified in complementary and alternative practices as well as mainstream AND emerging western medicine,
had every modality to work with and choose from,
know all the best practitioners in the CAM genre,
know "how" to read through scientific and pseudo-scientific references,
know how to tell the difference,
know where and how to validate their legitimacy.

I welcome your reasoned and scientifically supported reply.
I will likely not read any "pseudo-scientific" infomercials ..... :shock:
BUTT if you feel they are relevant and valid I may supply some feedback, as a courtesy
to you and your husband.

As an aside : the two of you are using one username login.
As a courtesy to others here it would be appreciated if you would consistently identify which partner is posting, or preferably, register a second member account so everyone will know with whom they are interacting.
As a MOD here, please send me a PM and I can activate your account ASAP !
Thank you.

Sending my best wishes to you and your husband

Respectfully and In Harmony
CRguy
Caregiver x 4
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
13 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

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Maggie Nell
Posts: 1134
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:57 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Maggie Nell » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:14 am

DX April 2015, @ 54
35mm poorly diff. tumour, incidental finding following emergency r. hemicolectomy
for ileo-colic intussusception.
Lymph nodes: 0/22
T3 N0 MX
July 2019 : pending liver U/S, colonoscopy
rut roh

Swirdfish
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:57 am

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Swirdfish » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:10 am

Image

okay !!! my .gif failed he is MEANT to be eating popcorn!!
06/2016 Went in for colonoscopy came out with a tumor. Age 35
12cm from verge at junction. Rectal cancer.
Clinical stage T3 NO MO
Temp illestomy
Completed 5FU and Radiation
LAR surgery planned 13 Oct 2016
Completed ULAR surgery 11-10-2016.
0/22 nodes
pT3 N0 M0 R1
Stage 2A

Pathology reviewed and changed
ypT3 N0 M0 R0

Started folfox 21-11-2016
5-4-17 NED
Reversal 12-4-17

mpbser
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby mpbser » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:27 am

Hi CRguy,

Every single one of those links either cites a research study or has numerous links to studies within the articles. They are all from greenmedinfo.com which has a mission of providing evidence based natural medical information. At the bottom of each article and/or citation is:

Article Published Date :
Study Type :
Additional Links
Substances :
Diseases :
Pharmacological Actions :

For example:

Article Published Date : May 19, 2017
Study Type : In Vitro Study
Additional Links
Substances : Curcumin : CK(4250) : AC(2230)
Diseases : Pancreatic Cancer : CK(890) : AC(260)
Pharmacological Actions : Anti-metastatic : CK(634) : AC(414), Antiproliferative : CK(2546) : AC(1685), Apoptotic : CK(2958) : AC(2075)

Yes, I totally understand your point regarding these:
"it stands to reason that CRC could be reversed by extremely healthy lifestyles."
presuming that an unhealthy lifestyle CAUSED CRC ... ?
What about other comorbidities ?
What about genetics ?
Would a Lynch syndrome patient with advanced CRC have been "cured" by what ... ?

Yes, absolutely presuming that an unhealthy lifestyle CAUSED CRC. Given the likelihood, as shown by the links (not internet related use of the term) evidenced in studies such as those cited, if a person does not have a genetic SNP, then my opinion is that it probably is safe to assume. An exception would be beckster, who has not been diagnosed with an SNP but from her family history it would appear that genetics is at least playing some role. And, yes, it isn't so radical and definitely not illogical to suggest that because X could have been prevented by Y, then doing Y could reverse X. Besides, it sure would not hurt to try.

I don't think that there is any question that my husband's lifestyle caused his cancer. Even he recognizes this. The most important thing is that he knows it wouldn't hurt to try.

When I found out that I had a genetic mutation, my initial reaction was to regard the Dx as a catastrophe as if genetics = destiny. (Which I believe is an over-simplistic paradigm.) It took me a while of studying what it meant to have a MTHFR on my 677T gene before that fear went away. I learned about the role of folate in red blood cells and of methyltetrahydrofolate reductase in the folic acid methylation cycle. I made the connection to my off the charts serum folic acid test in 2009 or so to the SNP (and was really annoyed with that previous doctor who didn't pick that up). I learned the difference between 677T mutations and 1298C mutations (the two types of MTHFR SNPs are on 677T and 1298C) and between heterozygous SNPs (my methylation rate is about 70%) and homozygous SNPs (have a methylation rate of about 30%). I learned how vital methylfolate is to regulating homocysteine. I learned that evelated homocysteine causes platelet hyper-coaguability and, hence, is one of the reasons MTHFR SNPs are linked to CVD. So, I started supplementing with L-methylfolate and other supplements, running 3+ miles daily, etc etc etc. Within a year, all the plaque in my carotid artery that was built up was then gone. All my biomarkers for CVD/inflammation were normalized or even at optimal levels.

There has been a direct correlation to my lifestyle with my carotid sonogram (C-IMT) results and blood tests over the past 6 years since my Dx.

Like I said, maybe "cancer genes" play a different role than CVD genes, but I don't think so.

P.S. What I mean is, the Dx of a mutation alone is not a death sentence, IMO. It all depends on the type of mutation, whether it's homo or hetero, and all other factors combined. I am not saying by any means that all CC can be reversed (I carefully chose the word "could") by lifestyle or even by lifestyle alone. But for those with no genetic predisposition.... gotta jet... will finish this sentence later
Wife 4/17 Dx age 45
5/17 LAR
Adenocarcinoma
low grade
1st primary T3 N2b M1a
Stage IVA
8/17 Sub-total colectomy
2nd primary 5.5 cm T1 N0
9 of 96 nodes
CEA: < 2.9
MSS
Lynch no; KRAS wild
Immunohistochemsistry Normal
Fall 2017 FOLFOX shrank the 1 met in liver
1/18 Liver left hepatectomy seg 4
5/18 CT clear
12/18 MRI 1 liver met
3/7/19 Resection & HAI
4/1/19 Folfiri & FUDR
5/13/19 HAI pump catheter dislodge, nearly bled to death
6-7 '19 5FU 4 cycles
NED

Scilla
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:09 am

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Scilla » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:55 am

CRguy wrote:...
I have been here and doing THIS for a shitload of years
...

...
Now to your post :
...

...
I am not attacking YOU as a person, only faulty logic, which sadly as a scientist I see all too often.
...

...
if you choose to have an intelligent conversation with me,
Please bring the facts and bring the logic, and most importantly ...
BRING ME THE RESULTS.

Please consider that I :
...
[list of relevant merits]
...

I welcome your reasoned and scientifically supported reply.
...
I may supply some feedback, as a courtesy to you and your husband.


Sending my best wishes to you and your husband

Respectfully and In Harmony
CRguy


Word!

Edited to add that I, too, think that a healthy lifestyle can lower your risk of getting cancer, but once you have it, it's a different story. Surely, a healthy and active lifestyle makes it easier for your body to fight diseases, so this would be a natural step to take when affected by any disease. Butt in some cases, a healthy and active lifestyle is not enough in itself.

Scilla
Supporter of mom 68 yr
Dx RC CRC 03/17
Rectal tumor 5cm, colon tumor 9cm
Two small liver mets,
04-05/2017 CAPOX Started twice, stopped due to side effects.
05/2017 One week of radiation to rectal tumor.
06-08/2017 Irinotecan+Bevacizumab
08/2017 Treatment stopped due to frail health
Mom is in Gods hands

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Bev G
Posts: 5856
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:19 pm
Facebook Username: Bev Golde
Location: Quechee, VT

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby Bev G » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:47 am

Hello,

No way I have enough time to read all of your links. I did want to let you know that the MSKCC nomogram is NOT valid for those of us with mCRC (which I believe your husband has), so it's not useful to use that nomogram for us stage IV folks. Probably using ACA website is a better source for prognostic info.

Good luck to you.
58 yo Type1 DM 48 years
12/09 Stage IV 2/22 nodes + liver met, colon resec
3 tx FOLFIRI, liver resec 4/10
9/10 6 mos off chemo, Neg PET&CTC CEA nl
2/11 finished total 10 rounds chemo

9/13 ^17th clean PET/CT NED for now

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kellywin
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:46 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: Things people say or don't say but it's okay

Postby kellywin » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:00 pm

mpbser wrote:Yes, absolutely presuming that an unhealthy lifestyle CAUSED CRC. Given the likelihood, as shown by the links (not internet related use of the term) evidenced in studies such as those cited, if a person does not have a genetic SNP, then my opinion is that it probably is safe to assume. An exception would be beckster, who has not been diagnosed with an SNP but from her family history it would appear that genetics is at least playing some role. And, yes, it isn't so radical and definitely not illogical to suggest that because X could have been prevented by Y, then doing Y could reverse X. Besides, it sure would not hurt to try.



I am going to attempt to reply without attacking - as that's just something I don't do - but who do you think you are to tell me and others on this board that they caused their cancer? Are you serious? You should read some of the stories on here, people with no family history, from all walks of life, all different types of diets, marathon runners, athlete's etc. To make a blanket statement like that is truly disgusting.
Kelly, mom 14 yo girl
Dx 11/15/12 Rectal Cancer @ age 40
Stage IIIC
5.5 weeks Xeloda & Radiation - complete 2/5/13
Colectomy 3/12/13, 7 of 14 nodes positive - no ileo
4/24/13-8/20/13 - 5 rounds Xelox, 1 Xeloda only


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