What supplements do you take????

[mpbser]

LPL,

That study you cited entitled "Curcumin Beats Chemo for Reducing Colon Cancer Stem Cells" was the study I was thinking of when I stated that curcumin is 3x more effective than chemo.

[betsydoglover]

Debbie Downer here - no supplements other than standard multivitamin. Not saying they can't help - probably mostly to help you feel better (maybe). When first diagnosed in 2005 with stage 4, I researched about supplements. It seemed that for the most part, those with very detailed supplement regimens also sold the "ideal" supplements / drink / etc. I gave up. Surgery and chemo seems to have saved my life for now, so I stick with Centrum and Caltrate.

Take care no matter your path,

[wesixcooks]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28011386

"Curcumin inhibits growth potential by G1 cell cycle arrest and induces apoptosis in p53-mutated COLO 320DM human colon adenocarcinoma cells."

Since turmeric has a long history of use as a spice, and Chinese medicinal use, it's GRAS (generally regarded as safe). It's been shown in many studies to help with many different symptoms, so it's a supplement that I would certainly feel good about everyone taking. Please consult your doctors, as always. My neurologist had me start it for migraines and joint pain. I've greatly increased the dosage now, since my diagnosis on 4/12.

Since you asked , I'll tell you which brand I use. Thorne Research Meriva SF Sustained Release Soy Free. No black pepper, which is usually necessary for absorption, unless you pay for this trademarked Meriva type of curcumin. It's a bit more expensive. The black pepper can sometimes upset stomachs, which happened with me, and by "upset," I mean pretty bad pain.

I encourage you all to do your research on supplements, especially turmeric/curcumin, and Thorne Research. If you find a better product, please let me know! I am always learning.

[wesixcooks]

mpbser - The anemia may be due to the cancer. I had to take IV iron because I couldn't absorb even the most natural irons available, and I had no iron reserves.

peanut_8 and LPL - Regardless of the exact technicalities of the quote someone else made about turmeric, it's an incredible resource. I can't imagine why there's fussing about it. As I said above, everyone should do their own research. A good place to start is ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/. (No period at the end.)

fumaros - I'm not sure what you mean by compulsive. The urge to survive is pretty instinctive, lol; I guess you could say it's compulsive! I think anything we do that is positive and anti-cancer gives us a sense of power and control over our fates. Just make sure you research before spending money. I include mainstream therapies in that: Search out the best hospitals and doctors!

rp1954 - Who does your IV vitamin C for you? I definitely want this, but haven't looked into it yet. Can you tell me about the cimetidine? I've heard it mentioned. (I'll do my own homework too, of course!)

Thank you all for sharing! I'm very surprised at how few of you (who volunteered, anyway) are on supplements.

[mpbser]

wesixcooks,

We use Jarrow's Cucrcumin 95 formula. Thorne also has superior products. I (this is CV, mpser's wife) use l-methylfolate and other supplements from Thorne, so I will look into their curcumin.

You didn't ask me about cimetidine (aka Tagamet in the US) but I will chime in. I had asked my husband's oncologist about that but she blew me off. I pressed the subject with his surgeon and sent him the following information, cc'ed below, and asked why no one had prescribed it for him pre-surgery. From what I have read, the recommendation is to use it for a week pre-surgery and for ten days right after surgery. His surgeon read what I sent him and prescribed 800mg 2x/day for the week pre-surgery and 800mg/day for the following ten days. Some people take it long term but husband doesn't want to get reliant on it and end up causing GERD.

I didn't mention cimetidine as a supplement because I would consider it more of a pharmaceutical "drug" because it is patentable. Techinically, cimetidine is N-cyano-N'-methyl-N"-{2/(5-methyl-1H-imidazole-4-yl)methylthio/ethyl}guanidine. In fact, it had been patented and the patent expired in 1994. Some interesting history on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/17/busin ... -ends.html . I believe that the patent expiration plays a large role in why cimetidine is not widely prescribed despite its efficacy.

Cimetidine inhibits cancer cell adhesion by blocking the expression of an adhesive molecule—called E-selectin—on the surface of cells lining blood vessels (Eichbaum 2011). Cancers cells latch onto E-selectin in order to adhere to the lining of blood vessels (Eichbaum 2011). By preventing the expression of E-selectin, cimetidine significantly limits the ability of cancer cell adherence to the blood vessel walls. This effect is analogous to removing the velcro from the blood vessels walls that would normally enable circulating tumor cells to bind.

Cimetidine’s potent anti-cancer effects were clearly displayed in a report published in the British Journal of Cancer in 2002. In this study, 64 colon cancer patients received chemotherapy with or without cimetidine (800 mg per day) for one year. The 10-year survival for the cimetidine group was almost 90%. This is in stark contrast to the control group, which had a 10-year survival of only 49.8%. Remarkably, for those patients with a more aggressive form of colon cancer, the 10-year survival was 85% in those treated with cimetidine compared to a dismal 23% in the control group (Matsumoto 2002). The authors of the study concluded, "Taken together, these results suggested a mechanism underlying the beneficial effect of cimetidine on colorectal cancer patients, presumably by blocking the expression of E-selectin on vascular endothelial [lining of blood vessels] cells and inhibiting the adhesion of cancer cells." These findings are supported by another study with colorectal cancer patients wherein cimetidine given for just seven days at the time of surgery increased three-year survival from 59% to 93% (Adams 1994).

There has been previous discussion on this board about cimetidine which I found very helpful: viewtopic.php?t=49454

I am also looking into PSK for husband:

One prominent natural compound that can increase NK cell activity is PSK, (protein-bound polysaccharide K) a specially prepared extract from the mushroom Coriolus versicolor. PSK has been shown to enhance NK cell activity in multiple studies (Fisher 2002; Garcia-Lora 2001). PSK’s ability to enhance NK cell activity helps to explain why it has been shown to dramatically improve survival in cancer patients. For example, 225 patients with lung cancer received radiation therapy with or without PSK (3 grams per day). For those with more advanced Stage 3 cancers, more than three times as many individuals taking PSK were alive after five years (26%), compared to those not taking PSK (8%). PSK more than doubled five-year survival in those individuals with less advanced Stage 1 or 2 disease (39% vs.17%) (Hayakawa 1997).

In a 2008 study, a group of colon cancer patients were randomized to receive chemotherapy alone or chemotherapy plus PSK, which was taken for two years. The group receiving PSK had an exceptional 10-year survival of 82%. Sadly, the group receiving chemotherapy alone had a 10-year survival of only 51% (Sakai 2008). In a similar trial reported in the British Journal of Cancer, colon cancer patients received chemotherapy alone or combined with PSK (3 grams per day) for two years. In the group with a more dangerous Stage 3 colon cancer, the five-year survival was 75% in the PSK group. This compared to a five-year survival of only 46% in the group receiving chemotherapy alone (Ohwada 2004). Additional research has shown that PSK improves survival in cancers of the breast, stomach, esophagus, and uterus as well (Okazaki 1986; Nakazato 1994; Toi 1992).

Given the uproar here in an earlier thread when my husband mentioned he was on the fence about chemo, I am not surprised in the least at how few respondents are taking supplements.

[rp1954]

There's a lot of previous cimetidine discussion here in the archives, easy to find with the Search box.

As for our IV vitamin C program, 95+% of them are at home given by a nurse, or even a doctor in our early days. We only go to a dr's office for the IV vitamin C when the nurses aren't available or we're traveling. Procurement and price of injectable vitamin C varies greatly by location, sources and your doctor's options. Getting volume purhases can be important with some DIY help.

I find the CAM/supplements vs chemo fights wrongheaded. Both can do things the other "side" can't. The real questions are what are the best molecules (ingredients), the best combination for you, and how to find a good personal package reliably. We have been able to use a mild 5FU based, oral chemo alone without the nasty/expensive stuff, using less known alternatives like cimetidine, celecoxib and specific heavy duty supplements, from the literature.

By my reckoning, we've been in a potential age of personalization for CRC treatment about 15-20 years, but it's not getting done in most cases.

[LPL]

If I have come across as being against supplements - that is not the case at all !

If I was the one in the family having Colon cancer I would take more supplements then what DH does. I share PubMed studies with him But it is his body, his desition.
My husband take:
probiotic (recommended by his Surgeon) +
calcium/vit.D3 (prescribed by his GP) +
Lactoferrin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4897438/
The Lactoferrin is something we both have taken even before DH's Colon cancer diagnose - we belive it has helped us -> less cold symptoms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... rt=classic
"In a recent study, 90 patients who indicated frequent cold symptoms were given human recombinant lactoferrin 600 mg/day or placebo for 90 days. Patients in the lactoferrin treatment group reported a significant reduction in symptom severity and reduced duration of symptoms relative to the control group. "

wesixscooks wrote:
peanut_8 and LPL - Regardless of the exact technicalities of the quote someone else made about turmeric, it's an incredible resource. I can't imagine why there's fussing about it.

Regarding what you describe as "fussing". I'm retired now but I have an education in clinical Chemistry. When working in a Lab "technicalities" are important. Maybe that is why I care? Also I am a believer in that 'words matter' and on that note, for giving correct info, I would like to point out that "Curcumin Beats Chemo for Reducing Colon Cancer Stem Cells" was the Titel of a Blog-post/article in "Chris Beat Cancer - A resource for healing cancer with nutrition and natural therapies by chemo-free survivor Chris Wark" and not the actual research. The titel the researcher had given the Study was "Curcumin Suppresses Crosstalk between Colon Cancer Stem Cells and Stromal Fibroblasts in the Tumor Microenvironment: Potential Role of EMT".

mpbser/CV,
I wish I had read more/known more about the cimetidine research and contacted DH's Surgeon about that - the way you did. Good for you ! I hope your DH is feeling better.

Kind Regards /L

[peanut_8]

peanut_8 and LPL - Regardless of the exact technicalities of the quote someone else made about turmeric, it's an incredible resource. I can't imagine why there's fussing about it. As I said above, everyone should do their own research. A good place to start is ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/. (No period at the end.)

The way things are phrased mean quite a bit. When someone mistakenly states that 'Curcumin is 3 times as effective as chemo" others may decide that chemo is not needed. That's a choice they are free to make, but it should be based on clinical evidence, and in this case there isn't any.

So a bit of an explanation for the following. The first reference is from this article...Forget what you’ve heard: Turmeric seems to have zero medicinal properties

The second is from the actual scientific review.

In a new review of chemical evidence, scientists write that curcumin is an “unstable, reactive, non-bioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead [for drug development].” The reason for this notorious review is because of its chemical properties that mess with leading methods to search for new drugs.

https://qz.com/883829/a-large-scientifi ... roperties/


Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate.

The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases.

No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful.

This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead. On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs ... em.6b00975

So, as always, this is just my opinion, butt if some random person on the internet states that 'curcumin is 3 times as effective as chemo', they are misleading at best and most likely full of that 4 letter word beloved by most of us here on Colon Talk.

Regards,
peanut

[wesixcooks]

It's important not to get all your research from one place! The article above is dated Jan 2017.

The study below is dated April 2017, a little more current.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28469791

Curcumin up regulates T helper 1 cells in patients with colon cancer. The therapy for the advanced colon cancer (Cca) is unsatisfactory currently. To regulate the immune effector cell function has shown a positive effect on the treatment of advanced cancers. This study tests a hypothesis that administration with curcumin converts the Cca patient-derived regulatory T cells (Treg) to T helper (Th) 1 cells. In this study, a group of patients with advanced Cca was recruited into this study. The patients were treated with curcumin. The peripheral Tregs and Th1 cells were assessed by flow cytometry. The results showed that, after the curcumin therapy, the forkhead box protein (Foxp) 3 positive Treg frequency was markedly reduced, the frequency of Th1 cells was significantly increased in Cca patients. Treating with curcumin repressed the Foxp3 gene transcription in Tregs; the Tregs were then converted into Th1 cells. The results also revealed that Foxp3 bound T-bet to prevent IFN-γ expression in CD4+ T cells, which was abolished by treating with curcumin. In conclusion, the administration of curcumin can convert Tregs to Th1 cells via repressing Foxp3 expression and enhancing IFN-γ production.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28415431 Dated March 2017 and June 1, 2017(!), this one is about the effectiveness of curcumin against colon cancer cells in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28358339

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28267439

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27895783

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28210221

There are many, many more. And like I stated above, this is a safe supplement, used for years! Why would you attempt to discourage people from taking it? There are hundreds of studies showing it's worthwhile - and you took the time out of your day to find one that said otherwise. Do you work for a pharmaceutical company, or were you injured by turmeric somehow? I'm trying to understand how it can mean so much to you that others not take it. Hmmm. Maybe you're really arguing with yourself.

[peanut_8]

The problem with the above is that it's in vitro. They haven't been able to duplicate the results in a double blind clinical study with actual people.

[mpbser]

I can only imagine what the controversy is, as I don't see peanut's posts. I think my husband must have done something in the settings.

wesixcooks is on point. Turmeric has been used medicinally for centuries in Southeast Asia. Further, just because it hasn't been capitalized upon and patented by a big pharmaceutical company doesn't mean that it doesn't have the health properties that have been tested and proven over centuries, even millenia, through folk medicine trial and error.

Many self-claimed "skeptics" are not really skeptics at all. Instead, they will simply reject everything that goes against their belief system without giving it any benefit of doubt.

[wesixcooks]

No, some of those studies I linked to above were actually on people, which tells me they either weren't read, or weren't understood. That's okay. Those abstracts are a little hard to get through.

However, if we waited till it makes it through many, many trials on people, most of us might already be dead.

But here is where you can apply your logical thinking! This is not an unknown, potentially harmful drug that desperately needs to be tested through many safety and efficacy trials!
Because it's a root, a spice that millions consume daily!

Here's how it works: if you don't like it, don't take it. Thanks for your concern! Ta ta!

[Maia]

Regardless of the exact technicalities of the quote someone else made about turmeric, it's an incredible resource. I can't imagine why there's fussing about it.

Those are not mere technicalities. As several already pointed out, some of the participants in this discussion have been mixing conclusions from studies in vitro --cell lines, in petri dishes--, in vivo --in small animals, like mice--, and in human --in patients--, and providing links to actual studies but also to websites of low to zero scientific value that interpret incorrectly those studies, and make high impact headlines from them.
Also, it's a fallacy to argue that someone pointing out those facts --count me as one of those-- is attempting to discourage people from taking it, came to that conclusion because they are not 'doing their own research', didn't take the time to do it or work for a pharmaceutical company, etc. All those are just ad homimen, that might help to 'win' some social media discussion but don't address the subject being discussed.
Discussing these ideas in those terms might result actually in many persons discouraged from considering these adjuvants.
I'm all for turmeric as an off-label, adjuvant, to treatment. It has potential. I'm a long term, careful reader of rp1954 posts, and I have made many similar, about some of the agents mentioned in this thread. Because of my interest on promoting this out-of-the box thinking, I think that keeping a rational debating is important.

[kiwiinoz]

Supplements were one thing that I took, and continue to take, despite the evidence that a lot of them just produce some expensive, and bright yellow urine.
I have been taking various supplements for 5 years such as Vitamin D, Multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, zinc, curcurmin, green tea and glucosamine. As you can see not all are cancer related.

However I tend to think that it is also best to ingest as much of these as possible by eating the whole food, or drinking the product.

I sprinkle lots of turmeric on my cereal in the morning, along with black pepper. After a long bout of exercise I'll have a smoothie with diced turmeric root. I eat a lot of curry and I tend to do the curry flavouring myself so I find I use a lot of turmeric. No idea if it works, but I am still here and a relatively healthy 44 year old so it is not having a negative effect.

One interesting point is that everyone keep talking about curcumin, but I found this from a site I like, where it actually links to a study that took curcurmin from turmeric and found that it was still as effective as turmeric with curcurmin, which has led to the hypothosis that it is not just the curcurmin that is beneficial.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/turmer ... -vs-pills/

Love to see what others think.

As others have said, do what makes you happy. Definitely go down the path of surgery and chemo and / or radiation, and supplement that with other forms of treatment.

Kiwi

[KElizabeth]

A lot if us do take supplement but many not feel comfortable promoting a supplement regime to another person. We're not doctors here and many supplement have drug interactions that must be considered.
It's 100% necessary to tell your doctor every supplement you take and exactly what doses. For instance, my doctor asked me to avoid taking antioxidant supplement as he felt it would interfere with treatment. I never would have thought it.
There are two good resources I use to check the safety of herbal supplement and alternative medicines. Each has a good description of precautions and drug interactions and each cites references.

Here is University of Maryland Herbal Medicine's link:
http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed

Here is Memorial Sloan Kettering' s resource :
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagn ... rbs/search

Looking at tumeric and Boswellia (Frankincense) and turmeric, both are listed as interfering with blood thinners.

Please talk to your oncologist about all you are taking oraly and applying to your skin.