Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

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DK37
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Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby DK37 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:53 am

Following up on StephenWinsToday’s post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52986

In addition to strong synergy with PD-1 pathway inhibitors, note this observation: http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2015/20 ... erapy.html

"By introducing a particular strain of bacteria into the digestive tracts of mice with melanoma, researchers at the University of Chicago were able to boost the ability of the animal's immune systems to attack tumor cells. The gains were comparable to treatment with anti-cancer drugs known as checkpoint inhibitors, such as anti-PD-L1 antibodies."

That is a very profound observation that requires the scientific scrutiny of repeatability by other labs to confirm (that is the way science works - one reason PD-1 inhibitors were such a HUGE scientific leap for the concept of immunotherapy was that not only were their effects large but also very reproducible between labs). But while scientists work out the details and confirm, due to the low side effect possibility, I'll be taking...

Paper from the Journal Science: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early ... ce.aac4255

-DK37
6/4/2012 Dx Stage 3C CRC @ 40 yo. MSS, KRAS-WT, BRAF-WT, p53-mut
7/12 FOLFOX/FOLFIRI
2/13 NED!
8/13 Enlarged lymphs - Stable
10/14 Stage IV. Lung & Lymph mets. 5-FU+bev
3/15 Cetuximab
11/15 FOLFIRI + bev
11/16 Signs of FOLFIRI resistance (Lymph mets)
1/17 Palliative radiation for resistant mets
2/17 FOLFIRI + bev + Maraviroc (off-label)
3/17 FOLFIRI + Erbitux + Maraviroc (off-label)
MSS-CRC Clinical Trial Finder: http://trialfinder.fightcrc.org/
2016 Colondar 2.0 Model
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JDinNC
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby JDinNC » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:43 am

Thank you for this report ...I guess I seriously need to start taking my probiotic ... As I have colon and melanoma...
61 y/o female @ DX...........
T3N0M1
6/13 DX- stage 4
Sigmoid colon cancer.
One met to lung
7/13 colon resection
8/13 lung resection
7/17 four years....NED
8/18 five years....NED
MELANOMA
63 y/o @ DX
6/15 stage 2a
7/15 surgery on arm
7/15 NED
4/16 recurrance
5/16 remove metastasis from back
5/16. Started immunotherapy
8/16 discontinue treatment
7/18...PET scan...NED

Jacques
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A book on Gut Bacteria

Postby Jacques » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:49 am

There's a recently published book that covers gut bacteria extensively in Chapter 3, pages 143 - 223:

Gut: The Inside Story of Our Body’s Most Underrated Organ” by Giulia Enders

http://www.amazon.com/Gut-Inside-Story-Bodys-Underrated/dp/1771641495

Image

Interview: Giulia Enders
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2015/s4266602.htm
DX(2012): RC
Stage IIc,T4b N0 M0 L0 PN1 H0 D0 P0 I1
LAR
MSI: not tested
Chimio-radiothérapie
Chimiothérapie adjuvante : capécitabine + oxaliplatine
CEA < 1.0,
5 years NED,
End of 6-month follow-ups: 7/2017
----
Info links:
Create Your Signature
How to Select a Surgeon
List of Forum Features
Colorectal Cancer Stages (TNM)

jillbugs4110
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby jillbugs4110 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:38 am

Could this be hopeful I dont understand this one as much ughhh wish I would have been a scientist
Live One Day At A Time
I Abandon myself to God
46 6 yo.....9yo...
stage 1V liver mets :-(
my one prayer to got to sustain me to raise my two babies this is my only wish then take me out if needed.

jillbugs4110
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby jillbugs4110 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:43 am

Ok I get it exciting stuff I wishmi was a scientist for real lol!!
Live One Day At A Time
I Abandon myself to God
46 6 yo.....9yo...
stage 1V liver mets :-(
my one prayer to got to sustain me to raise my two babies this is my only wish then take me out if needed.

ieowi
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:27 am

Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby ieowi » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:55 am

Searching for the right product 8)


Renew Life Ultimate Flora Extra Care Probiotic 200 Billion (Formerly Super Critical)
There are 50 bi, 100bi and 200 bi
Would higher means better any idea ?
Father 58 yo , Colon cancer IV + 4 Lymph. 7/2015
K-ras Mutant,GNAS,FBXW7,PIK3CA, MSI-low
4 cycles irinotecan+FU5
developed abdominal met + lung met...Failed
4 cycle Oxaliplatin+folfox. peri met growing...Failed
unofficial trial !!!

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DK37
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby DK37 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:59 am

ieowi wrote:Searching for the right product 8)


Renew Life Ultimate Flora Extra Care Probiotic 200 Billion (Formerly Super Critical)
There are 50 bi, 100bi and 200 bi
Would higher means better any idea ?


I honestly don't know how dose-response works in probiotics and if at a certain point it either maxes out or is detrimental to go too high - hopefully someone else on the Colon Talk board has experience with probiotics & can help out with that question!

-DK
6/4/2012 Dx Stage 3C CRC @ 40 yo. MSS, KRAS-WT, BRAF-WT, p53-mut
7/12 FOLFOX/FOLFIRI
2/13 NED!
8/13 Enlarged lymphs - Stable
10/14 Stage IV. Lung & Lymph mets. 5-FU+bev
3/15 Cetuximab
11/15 FOLFIRI + bev
11/16 Signs of FOLFIRI resistance (Lymph mets)
1/17 Palliative radiation for resistant mets
2/17 FOLFIRI + bev + Maraviroc (off-label)
3/17 FOLFIRI + Erbitux + Maraviroc (off-label)
MSS-CRC Clinical Trial Finder: http://trialfinder.fightcrc.org/
2016 Colondar 2.0 Model
DK37 Science Posts List

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bitchslapped
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby bitchslapped » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:38 pm

This study from PubMed is from 1997...yes, you read that right...1997:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9111222

So, I guess this might be a DK or Grouseman question, but what is new? That we now better understand the mechanics of it all in relation to the immune system?

Anybody else find this slightly interesting? Hmmm. :shock:

I could sign off as "Just Curious", or "Somewhat Surprised", but it's me here...

BS
DSS,35YO,unresect mCRC DX 7/'14,lvr,LN,peri,rib
FOLFOX+Avstn 4 Rnds d/c 10/'14
Stent 9/'14
FOLFIRI+Avstn 10/'14
Gone From My Sight 2/20/15
Me:garden variety polyps + precancerous polyp, diverticulitis
Carergver x2 DH,DM dbl occupancy,'03-'10
DH dx 47YO mCRC,'04-'07 fried x HAI
DM dx CC 85YO,CC,CHF,stroke,dementia,aphasia

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DK37
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby DK37 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:28 pm

bitchslapped wrote:This study from PubMed is from 1997...yes, you read that right...1997:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9111222

So, I guess this might be a DK or Grouseman question, but what is new? That we now better understand the mechanics of it all in relation to the immune system?

Anybody else find this slightly interesting? Hmmm. :shock:

I could sign off as "Just Curious", or "Somewhat Surprised", but it's me here...

BS


I give full credit & gratitude to the early day supporters in immune modulation (e.g. the Cancer Research Institute http://www.cancerresearch.org/ deserves HUGE credit for pushing this research forward for decades). For those of you that follow my blog, I put my own Mother into an immunotherapy trial back in the 1990's... But yes, understanding mechanics does matter beyond the relatively simple 1997 paper's data. If you look at Table 2 in the 1997 paper (the paper is free for download), it is a mess with huge error bars. The idea was obviously fine - but quality of scientific research execution does matter. The research in the current journal Science papers (there were actually 2 this week) was really well done and about as well done as any mouse model data can be. I've already been eating my fermented foods but I'll start supplementing with probiotics too. And yes, as many of you know I ingest a lot of beta-glucans too! :)

EDIT ADDED: I am not currently on cytotoxic chemo but I will be restarting FOLFIRI soon. I forgot to mention that the most common fermented food I eat is yogurt which when pasteurized is safe during chemo. http://www.livestrong.com/article/42199 ... motherapy/ In terms of probiotic use during chemo, I had trouble finding a good info source but it is discussed in this link http://www.curetoday.com/publications/c ... t-reaction
Last edited by DK37 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
6/4/2012 Dx Stage 3C CRC @ 40 yo. MSS, KRAS-WT, BRAF-WT, p53-mut
7/12 FOLFOX/FOLFIRI
2/13 NED!
8/13 Enlarged lymphs - Stable
10/14 Stage IV. Lung & Lymph mets. 5-FU+bev
3/15 Cetuximab
11/15 FOLFIRI + bev
11/16 Signs of FOLFIRI resistance (Lymph mets)
1/17 Palliative radiation for resistant mets
2/17 FOLFIRI + bev + Maraviroc (off-label)
3/17 FOLFIRI + Erbitux + Maraviroc (off-label)
MSS-CRC Clinical Trial Finder: http://trialfinder.fightcrc.org/
2016 Colondar 2.0 Model
DK37 Science Posts List

mariane
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Re: Follow-up on Stephen's Gut Bacteria Post - NON PD-(L)1 inhibitor Users

Postby mariane » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:50 pm

I used to treat my kids with Bifidobacterium probiotics after diarrheas since they were 3 months babies. it usually worked. Probiotics are highly recommended by pediatricians in Europe. I think they are altogether more popular from both children and adult. I always have good experience with them.

Lately I received from my friends Tibetan mushroom cultures (bacterias and yeasts producing kefir). Bifidobacterium is second among cultures in the Tibetan mushroom curds. There was a study in early 2000 that Tibetan mushroom has anti inflammatory properties. After a week of drinking my own kefir from organic milk I have less problems with my chemo exposed and damaged by low resection gut, less frequency, more normality. There is less gas, less foul smell. I altogether feel better.
mom of now 9 years old twins, dx @ 40 in 6/2015 with upper rectal cancer, 10+ liver mets, CEA 140
chemo: 8/2015 - 10/2016 - 4xFOLFIRINOX, 2xFOLFOX, 8xFOLFIRI, 10x5FU, HAI pump -12xFUDR
4 surgeries, complete pathological response
CEA<2 since 10/2015
NED since May 2016

I praise God for every day with my family!


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