Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

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ieowi
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Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby ieowi » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:52 am

rp1954 wrote:The apparent contradiction is in their minds, built on too simplistic models and assumptions, with lack of attention to crucial data, scientific results, practical results and observations.

ieowi: ...i thought to report what he said maybe someone would find it useful.i would however still show these papers to another oncologist if i had a chance i am sure he was inclined to not give us anything beside chemo. at least i tried to ask :(
Those of us that are actively pursuing these extra options, take charge of the situation. Typically a separate alternatives doctor handles the altermatives stuff and adminsitration. Even then you may have varied degrees of cooperation or static from the conventional oncologists. Some of the technical professionals go pretty heavily DIY.

The optimum use of vitamin C may result in a different chemo formulation than present, but it does seem to work well long term with 5FU compounds and Folfiri, for patients that were Kras/Braf mutant, elevated histamine or CA19-9+e-selectin with a lot of overlap in there. Shorter term uses may still benefit others.

High concentration vitamin C has multiple faces and roles at different locations within radically different chemical environments. The doctors will speak different "compartments", with different species accumulating or reacting at different sites. Vitamin C may work better in different forms for different applications. It is kind of amazing how little *productive* federal research has been done since 1940 on vitamin C to follow substantial preliminary results in obvious applications, much easier than cancer.


thank you for your additional comments
Father 58 yo , Colon cancer IV + 4 Lymph. 7/2015
K-ras Mutant,GNAS,FBXW7,PIK3CA, MSI-low
4 cycles irinotecan+FU5
developed abdominal met + lung met...Failed
4 cycle Oxaliplatin+folfox. peri met growing...Failed
unofficial trial !!!

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H is for Hawk
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Location: eastern Pennsylvania

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby H is for Hawk » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:48 pm

RP 1954,

Thanks for the info about the twice weekly vitamin C infusions to get therapeutic results, I am starting this protocol next week. I will probably bankrupt the Medicare system :)
H is for Hawk (57)
10/14 L. hemi-colectomy 3 x 4 x 1 cm tumor, 13/14 lymph nodes pos. pT4a N2B M0 stage 3 MSS
11/14 - 4/15 12x FOLFOX
5/15 PET scan: 2.5 x 1.5 cm l. colon lesion, peri surface lesion SUV 2.4, adenocar., KRAS wd, BRAF V600E mut
6/15 HIPEC
9/15 Pleural lining & liver mets, CA 19-9: 6000
10/15 Vectibix Tafinlar Mekinist
11/15 1500
1/16 200
2/16 100, add Lentinan
3/16 122
6/16 4500
7/16 20,000, CT scan - three new liver mets
8/16 6700, FOLFIRI
9/16 4900, CT scan - two new liver mets
10/16 2255 vinorelbine

JENNJ
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby JENNJ » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:26 pm

H is for Hawk wrote:RP 1954,

Thanks for the info about the twice weekly vitamin C infusions to get therapeutic results, I am starting this protocol next week. I will probably bankrupt the Medicare system :)


Please keep us up to date! My Dad is BRAF mutant so I would love to know how well you do on it. We are exploring naturopathic doctors to get it.
Thank you
Katy

rp1954
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby rp1954 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:59 pm

Hawk, the monthly cost of IV vitamin C is cheap in comparison to normal IV chemo components, e.g. compare any chemo, -iri, -oxi, Avastin, Erbitux, or even 5FU infusions. So don't feel guilty.

I may have said this too indistinctly, [IV C]...twice a week while on chemo. I don't think standalone IV vitamin C for CRC is an adequate tumor inhibitor for most CRC situations. Alone, it will ameliorate some important symptoms. The real CRC successes I've seen had something(s) else added. The published lab data show this, too, as an additive ("synergistic" is often misused) tumor inhibitor. Twice a week IV vitamin C + other adjuvants until the biomarkers recede toward baseline and scanned features stop growing, shrink or go away. For example, Luvinlife had Xeliri plus IV vitamin C plus K3 and celecoxib, substantial vitamin D, metformin, mistletoe.

The real trick is to add enough useful things that you can substitute out or reduce the -iri and -oxi parts. My personal belief is that IV vitamin C and cimetidine may produce, for many Kras/Braf mutants (codons?), the result that Avastin sponsors wanted (dreamed of) for stage III patients when coupled with (metronomic) 5FU based treatments.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper chemo to almost nothing mid 2018, IV C-->2021. Now supplements

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H is for Hawk
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Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby H is for Hawk » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:45 pm

RP 1954,

Thanks for the advice, I plan to start twice weekly vitamin c infusions next week, since I am BRAF mutant and have elevated CA 19-9 levels. This will be in addition to the Vectibix (anti EGFR), Tafinlar (anti BRAF) and Mekinist (anti MEK) targeted chemo that I am currently on.
H is for Hawk (57)
10/14 L. hemi-colectomy 3 x 4 x 1 cm tumor, 13/14 lymph nodes pos. pT4a N2B M0 stage 3 MSS
11/14 - 4/15 12x FOLFOX
5/15 PET scan: 2.5 x 1.5 cm l. colon lesion, peri surface lesion SUV 2.4, adenocar., KRAS wd, BRAF V600E mut
6/15 HIPEC
9/15 Pleural lining & liver mets, CA 19-9: 6000
10/15 Vectibix Tafinlar Mekinist
11/15 1500
1/16 200
2/16 100, add Lentinan
3/16 122
6/16 4500
7/16 20,000, CT scan - three new liver mets
8/16 6700, FOLFIRI
9/16 4900, CT scan - two new liver mets
10/16 2255 vinorelbine

jortego128
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:47 am

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby jortego128 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:03 am

Hawk, I see you are KRAS wild and BRAF mutant-- doesnt this mean Vectibix will probably not be effective? Just curious as to your reasons for including it.
DM 57 yrs old dx 6/8/15 T:4a N:1b M:1
KRAS G12D and TP53 C242fs mutations
Poorly Differentiated, Prominent Signet Ring Component(~50%)
Microsatellite Stable, 3 of (13)lymph nodes positive
15 Liver mets, largest 3.2 cm
Prim. Resection, Right Hemicolectomy 6/21/15
Start Chemo 7/20/15
2 rounds FOLFOX, 1 round FOLFOX +Avastin
CT 8/28/15, met growth, largest 4.5cm
4 rounds FOLFOX+Avastin
CT 11/06/15 mets stable, lungs clear
Begin FOLFIRI+Avastin 11/17/15, Stop chemo 1/26/16
Entered Paradise 3/11/2016

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H is for Hawk
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Location: eastern Pennsylvania

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby H is for Hawk » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:37 pm

Jortega128,

Yes, you are right, Vectibix by itself does not help BRAF mutant patients. There was a study that combined Vectibix, Tafinlar, and Mekinist and apparently there was some synergy using all three agents in BRAF patients. This study was published at the 2015 ASCO meeting titled "Updated efficacy of the MEK inhibitor trametinib (T), BRAF inhibitor dabrafenib (D) and anti-EGFR antibody panitumumab (P) in patients (pts) with BRAFV600E mutated (BRAFm) metastatic colorectal cancer (mCRC)". It is also in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, 33, 2015. This combination was recommended by Dr. V. & Dr. Y . (Memorial Sloan Kettering).
H is for Hawk (57)
10/14 L. hemi-colectomy 3 x 4 x 1 cm tumor, 13/14 lymph nodes pos. pT4a N2B M0 stage 3 MSS
11/14 - 4/15 12x FOLFOX
5/15 PET scan: 2.5 x 1.5 cm l. colon lesion, peri surface lesion SUV 2.4, adenocar., KRAS wd, BRAF V600E mut
6/15 HIPEC
9/15 Pleural lining & liver mets, CA 19-9: 6000
10/15 Vectibix Tafinlar Mekinist
11/15 1500
1/16 200
2/16 100, add Lentinan
3/16 122
6/16 4500
7/16 20,000, CT scan - three new liver mets
8/16 6700, FOLFIRI
9/16 4900, CT scan - two new liver mets
10/16 2255 vinorelbine

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H is for Hawk
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 4:51 pm
Location: eastern Pennsylvania

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby H is for Hawk » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:40 pm

I had a consult with Dr. V at Memorial Sloan Kettering last week and she strongly urged me to stop the high dose vitamin C infusions. She said I am doing fine on the Vectibix / Tafinlar / Mekinist chemotherapy and I shouldn't do anything that might affect that. She mentioned my chemo works by interfering with the DNA replication in the cancer cells, and the high dose vitamin C might counteract the chemo. She also stated the preliminary research done at John Hopkins was in vitro (done in test tube) which is the weakest evidence that something works.

This is one of the problems with complementary therapy, is that there is conflicting advice. Many of you have been proponents of high dose vitamin C. To be on the safe side, I am discontinuing the high dose Vitamin C infusions.
H is for Hawk (57)
10/14 L. hemi-colectomy 3 x 4 x 1 cm tumor, 13/14 lymph nodes pos. pT4a N2B M0 stage 3 MSS
11/14 - 4/15 12x FOLFOX
5/15 PET scan: 2.5 x 1.5 cm l. colon lesion, peri surface lesion SUV 2.4, adenocar., KRAS wd, BRAF V600E mut
6/15 HIPEC
9/15 Pleural lining & liver mets, CA 19-9: 6000
10/15 Vectibix Tafinlar Mekinist
11/15 1500
1/16 200
2/16 100, add Lentinan
3/16 122
6/16 4500
7/16 20,000, CT scan - three new liver mets
8/16 6700, FOLFIRI
9/16 4900, CT scan - two new liver mets
10/16 2255 vinorelbine

rp1954
Posts: 1853
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby rp1954 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Hey Hawk, thanks for letting us know what's going on. Hope this is a good run for you.

My thought is to measure as much bloodwork as possible to track performance closest, MCV, d-dimer, GGT, LDH, maybe 1-2 more cancer markers where there is some elevation (AFP also works for us), ESR, CRP, in close intervals. Then if things start to drift, get resistant, then we try out and add more low toxicity options with frequent bloodwork until most everything gets better. One place where oncologists spook me, is when they say "it isn't working anymore" and send people home empty handed. We never leave such a tx gap in chemistry. In fact, although we keep doctors in the loop, we've disconnected them from the "disconnect button".
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper chemo to almost nothing mid 2018, IV C-->2021. Now supplements

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Mastan
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Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby Mastan » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:40 am

I just had a consult at the Mayo Clinic and I raised the topic of vitamin c. The oncologist that I spoke with said that there is conflicting data regarding the use of vitamin c. In other words, there is some data to indicate that it fuels cancer growth. He recommended staying clear of this until there definitive scientific evidence one way or the other.

Mark
Dx 6/2010 rectal CA

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dianetavegia
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Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby dianetavegia » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:21 am

Modified Citrus Pectin, which can be bought online, has shown promise for YEARS in preventing mets and shrinking mets. For someone with active mets, the cost would be around $60 a MONTH. I used it for a year and put it in applesauce. I couldn't tolerate the taste in warm water. I just made sure it was fully dissolved before eating it.

You might search for MCP colon cancer, etc. I just got lazy and went from 3 spoons a day to 1 and then stopped after a year and when I did buy another container, let over half of it expire.
Stage III cc surgery 1/7/09. 12 tx FOLFOX
Stage IV PET = 1.5cm liver met. HR 4/11/12

14 years since dx and 11 years post liver resection.
Pronounced CURED and discharged by onc

“O Lord my God, I cried out to You, And You healed me.” Psalms 30:2

rp1954
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Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells in KRAS/BRAF - Study

Postby rp1954 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:41 pm

There was concern early on about the scientific-social aspects of cancer treatment, the seeming conumdrums of contradiction, and dealing with "expert opinions". We resolve these with observation and measurement. Beyond various literature, we decide experimental and personalization issues along three avenues:

1. prognostic markers, like Kras/BRAF has been suggested for vitamin C;
2. functional cell testing of living tissue samples for inhibition, by a specialized laboratory;
3. performance monitoring with specific cancer markers and non specific markers.

These greatly improve the individual's situation with respect to common, casual medical opinions. "Expert" ones, too.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper chemo to almost nothing mid 2018, IV C-->2021. Now supplements


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