DK37 Science Posts List

Please feel free to read, share your thoughts, your stories and connect with others!
User avatar
CRguy
Posts: 10230
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: DK37 Science Posts List

Postby CRguy » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:06 pm

That is a great link to a great blog !
Thanks once again GrouseMan.

Back in my third year biochem course, I had a prof who loved Linus Pauling... BUTT
he always told us " he may have been riding his own hobby horse a little to much !"

When popular media gets hold of a "promising _______ " fill in your own entry,
they always seem to be harking back to :
" if more is better ... TOO MUCH is just right ! "

This article, I believe, shows us ... if we are willing to listen and read between the lines

THERE IS good science being done all the time
THERE are great discoveries which can and WILL impact major health issues ....
BUTT .....
WE need to weed out the wheat from the chaff

The devil is ALWAYS in the details and this discussion is helping to define AND refine those exact details !

once again my friend
THANK YOU for helping us to do just that !

Best wishes
CRguy
Caregiver x 4
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
13 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

rp1954
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am

Re: DK37 Science Posts List

Postby rp1954 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:42 pm

Derek appears outside the loop on vitamin C. Pauling was aware of the pro-oxidation effect (and Dr Klenner), but got spooked by one the great first hits in cancer medicine. The patient's extensive tumors apparently all necrosed after one infusion - so the patient died of tumor lysis syndrome - too much rotting cancer mass. So now they start slower for 1-2 infusions.

IV vitamin C is the source of the original miracle stories in the 1930s-40s-50s, long before Pauling started in 1966-67. The pro-oxidation observations date back to the late 1930s in published experimental biology papers. This pro-oxidation effect was both cited and clinically utilized extensively by Dr Frederick R Klenner in the 1950s, to destroy pathogens, toxins and poisons (e.g. CO) with astounding ascorbate doses, say 350 - 1500 mg C per kg of body mass in a single infusion (note modern protocols exclude people with severe G6PD deficiency or with severe pre-existing kidney problems). Then repeated twice more for pathogens on the first day, and then continued as needed for several days.

Klenner is still largely unacknowledged in medicine today. Anyone who talks about "high dose" IV vitamin C and can't cite Klenner is likely ignorant or their info corrupted somewhere. Many phenomena cited today, now applied for cancer, were shown earlier, often in the 1930s labwise and applied by Klenner, clinically in the 1940s-50s. Klenner did not publish on cancer per se in his lifetime but his work overlaps on basic phenomena like pro-oxidation, with a few of his comments cited posthumously.

The details of Pauling's story and his vitamin C technical situation is complicated. Basically he didn't get to generate important data that he tried and tried, so hard to get done over a 20 year period, but he was totally frustrated by the agendas of others, spiraling out of control. Interestingly, some his "friendly proteges" damaged him almost as much as the most prominent of his enemies, dissipating his hard raised research funds without the starting/completing crucial experiments, and causing chaos. Pauling simply was unable to get his basic research tasks executed, and his effective role was primarily advocacy. Some of these research tasks have been finally executed, often times without acknowledgement of Pauling's analysis and attempts, or even actual prior data back to the 1930s-40s. Ultimately I fault Pauling for appeasement, not being aggressive enough on the high dose side, trying to waffle in with "lower doses" - I view the public version of his story as a distraction.

Even today what they are calling "high dose" IV vitamin C in the highest dose formal virus treatment experiments to date, after 70+ years wait, are only 1/60th - 1/10th of the rate or dose that my wife uses routinely for cancer, or if need be, coronavirus.
watchful, active researcher and caregiver for stage IVb/c CC. surgeries 4/10 sigmoid etc & 5/11 para-aortic LN cluster; 8 yrs immuno-Chemo for mCRC; now no chemo
most of 2010 Life Extension recommendations and possibilities + more, some (much) higher, peaking ~2011-12, taper to almost nothing mid 2018, mostly IV C

User avatar
beach sunrise
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: DK37 Science Posts List

Postby beach sunrise » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Hi rp, I have been doing the vitamin c infusions since Jan. They started me off on myers cocktail then alternate between vit c and myers. I am up to 100 mg for the vit c, only going one day a week. This week the dose will increase. I feel better personally and it helps with side effects of folfox. I feel cancer is camping out somewhere in my body still after surgery and being on mop up chemo because my CEA is still high. I am keeping fingers crossed that these extra infusions will help with killing cancer. Thank you for your input on this subject while I am online here, I would have hated to miss it.
8/19 RC CEA 86 T3N0M0
Neoadj 5FU/rad 6 wk
Surg 1-21-20 APR - margins T4bN1a IIIC G2 MSI- 1/20 LN+ LVI+ PNI-
pre cea 24/post 5.9
mFOLFOX6 CEA 7
8 rds 6-10 CEA 11.4 4 more no oxa
6-17 CEA 11.1
7-2 CEA 11.1
7-16 CEA 10.3
7-28 CEA 8.8
8-11 CEA 7.8
9-1 CEA 8.8
9-8 CEA 9
9-16 CEA 9
9-22 CEA 8.6
MHL1+
PMS2+
MSH2+
MSH6+
POLD1
Chem-sens test NCI "Test failed, neo adj CR worked. Not enough ca cells to test"


Return to “Colon Talk - Colon cancer (colorectal cancer) support forum”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests