Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

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ilivebyfaith
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Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:15 pm

Hi everyone. Been researching about laser lung surgery in Germany and I really think it's the best option for my husband should he be qualified and decided to undergo laser surgery. Would just like to know the following:
1. How long do we have to stay in the hospital?
2. How long should he rest before we can travel back home to our country? How long should we stay in Germany for this?
3. How much hospitalization budget should we prepare, inclusive of hospital accommodation, laser surgery, medicines needed during or after the operation and the professional fee of the surgeon.
4. Lung function wise, what can my husband expect after the laser surgery?
5. Are there follow up check up, lab tests required after the laser surgery in Germany?

Your inputs will be of great help. We are considering this laser thing in the near future. Regards to all.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

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Mastan
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Mastan » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:17 pm

ilivebyfaith wrote:Hi everyone. Been researching about laser lung surgery in Germany and I really think it's the best option for my husband should he be qualified and decided to undergo laser surgery. Would just like to know the following:
1. How long do we have to stay in the hospital?

Depends on if there are complications. No complications then 14 days.
2. How long should he rest before we can travel back home to our country? How long should we stay in Germany for this?

You will have to get permission from the physician in Germany to give to the airlines to fly.

3. How much hospitalization budget should we prepare, inclusive of hospital accommodation, laser surgery, medicines needed during or after the operation and the professional fee of the surgeon.

When I did it, last yr. it was in the 30,000-40,000 euro range per lung.
4. Lung function wise, what can my husband expect after the laser surgery?

No one can truly answer that question because the lung function will be determined by where the mets are located. All porions of the lung to not contribute the same amount to ones aerobic capacity. This point I learned from a pulmonologist.
5. Are there follow up check up, lab tests required after the laser surgery in Germany?

Basically x-rays to be sure you are not walking around with a collapsed lung.
I had a collapsed lung that took 2 mos. to heal while in Germany. However, it is thought that this was due to radiation damage created here in the states before going to Germany. The other unirradiated lung healed fine and I was on my way back to the states in 2 weeks.
Your inputs will be of great help. We are considering this laser thing in the near future. Regards to all.
Dx 6/2010 rectal CA

ilivebyfaith
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:33 pm

@mastan

Thank you for your reply. Good thing I asked, I saw in the net from a patient 2 years ago that it was 18,000 euros then, per lung. How significantly have the price for laser increased over 2 years, more than doubled.

Anyway, I still feel that this laser treatment makes sense. My husband is starting to complain on the effects of chemo and how it makes him so weak :(

If it's ok, may I ask how many mets were they able to zapped out? And if you remember, what was the biggest met size?

Thank you so much. You will never know how much this message means to me and my dear husband. Thank you for making time to share your inputs.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

ilivebyfaith
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:38 pm

Follow up question, do they do it simultaneously on both lungs? Or is it 2 separate laser appointment? Thank you so much.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

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Mastan
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Mastan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:23 am

ilivebyfaith wrote:@mastan

Thank you for your reply. Good thing I asked, I saw in the net from a patient 2 years ago that it was 18,000 euros then, per lung. How significantly have the price for laser increased over 2 years, more than doubled.

Perhaps not. It depends upon where you go to have it done. I had it done at the University Hospital in Freiberg. I believe the lower price is for procedures performed in Dresden. There are multiple places in Germany to have this procedure done.

Anyway, I still feel that this laser treatment makes sense. My husband is starting to complain on the effects of chemo and how it makes him so weak :(

He will likely not escape that option even post surgery.

If it's ok, may I ask how many mets were they able to zapped out? And if you remember, what was the biggest met size?

I had 7 spots in the left lung and 6 spots in the right lung. The largest spots were about a cm. they biopsied each spot and one of the spots was primary lung cancer the others were mets. If I had not done the surgery we would have not known about the lung cancer spot and subsequent chemo would have done nothing to treat it.

Thank you so much. You will never know how much this message means to me and my dear husband. Thank you for making time to share your inputs.


Regarding your follow up question, they can only do one at a time because they collapse the lung that they operate on. You can view this procedure on line.

Regards,

Mark
Dx 6/2010 rectal CA

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Sophy
Posts: 206
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Sophy » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:22 pm

There are a few hospitals in Germany which do this procedure. I was operated on in the one in Coswig by Professor Rolle. If you do a google search you will find their current phone number etc.

i had my surgery January 2014 and they said cost would be about 25,000 Euros (I think) which was payable in advance with excess refunded or additional payment at end of stay, it was 26 Euros less.

First thing to do is phone them now. They told me that Prof Rolle needed to see my CT scan images to decide if he could operate on me which I couriered to him and he emailed me back within a week.

There is also the option of having surgery in London using the same laser technique carried out by George Ladas at the Royal Brompton hospital. It costs over twice as much as Germany but in my experience he was more thorough and more willing to take out difficult mets and re-operated on my left lung for a met Rolle had missed.

Another consideration is that there are very few English speaking staff at Coswig except Rolle and his secretary. I was lucky I speak schoolgirl German but it would have been difficult if I didn't.

There are many posts of other people's experiences with this surgery. If you search the forum for lung laser surgery or similar you will be able to read their stories and gather a lot of the information you are wanting.

Hope this helps you to make your decision

Sophy
dx T3N1M0 Feb 11
Children age 11, 7 and 2
Xeloda/rad March 11
LAR June 11 temp ileo
Xelox 6 rounds
Lung mets Oct 13
Laser surgery Germany Jan 14. 3 mets left lung.
Laser surgery UK Jun and Aug 14 one met each lung
Aug 14 Started Xeloda and Celebrex (ADAPT) 3 year course
November 2016 still NED

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Sophy
Posts: 206
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Sophy » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:26 pm

And you may wish to consider this study done at the Royal Brompton and Royal Marsden hospitals about the benefits of chemo before and after laser lung surgery at their hospitals.

This clearly contradicts what all other oncs have told me that there is no benefit in chemo before/after laser lung surgery.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.118 ... ltext.html
dx T3N1M0 Feb 11
Children age 11, 7 and 2
Xeloda/rad March 11
LAR June 11 temp ileo
Xelox 6 rounds
Lung mets Oct 13
Laser surgery Germany Jan 14. 3 mets left lung.
Laser surgery UK Jun and Aug 14 one met each lung
Aug 14 Started Xeloda and Celebrex (ADAPT) 3 year course
November 2016 still NED

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Mastan
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Mastan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:09 pm

Sophy wrote:And you may wish to consider this study done at the Royal Brompton and Royal Marsden hospitals about the benefits of chemo before and after laser lung surgery at their hospitals.

This clearly contradicts what all other oncs have told me that there is no benefit in chemo before/after laser lung surgery.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.118 ... ltext.html


When I was in Freiberg they strongly suggested chemo post thoracic surgery. I went off chemo for a while after surgery and the little buggers started to return.

Regarding language, this was a primary reason I had the surgery in West Germany. Most West Germans speak English as a second language unlike in East Germany where the second language was often Russian. I had no communication problems in Freiberg despite knowing very little German.

Mark
Dx 6/2010 rectal CA

ilivebyfaith
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:27 am

Hi Sophy and Mastan.

Just got home from another mini vacation :). I try to pepper dh's schedule with mini getaways in between chemo treatments to make him relax and forget about his condition even for a little while.

Thank you for your responses, my dh and I already spoke about this option and we are really considering this method. We figured that should he be qualified for laser, it will shorten the medication process. I remember before, upon diagnosis, he had 6 session of folfox and his liver mets were already gone. Right then, he had his primary colon tumor and 46 lung mets. After surgery, we then opted for chemo and targeted medicines (vectibix then erbitux) but to no avail, his mets increased to 120+.

We just thought that the 46 mets that he had before can easily be lasered out instead of the current number now. Plus he was stronger then, right now he can already feel the effects of chemo, being on chemo for almost a year now.

Anyway, the only thing that we need to figure out is our time away from home. We have 2 young kids (2 and 8yrs old) and going to Germany means leaving them for a month :( and since my husband's mets are bilateral, and they can only do it one at a time, it means we have to stay there longer? Or probably come back after 6months for the other lung?

Anyway, thank you for your reply. Will keep this thread posted.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

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Mastan
Posts: 433
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Mastan » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:36 pm

Hi, the first thing you should be doing is to send his med info to whichever hospital you are considering because he must get approval first. That will cost about $1000. I had to prove that my mets were stable for about 6 mos prior to surgery and confined to my lungs only.
Regarding travel, one goes for one surgery and then returns home. My surgeries were about 6 weeks apart. The cost of staying in Germany vs. traveling back and forth might be a wash. Given your family situation I would want to return between surgeries.

Mark
Dx 6/2010 rectal CA

Cb75
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby Cb75 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:01 pm

I had bi lateral laser lung resection by Dr. Rolle in Germany. I had my left lung resected in November of 2013 and my right lung resected in Feb 2014. I've had mixed response in that the first surgery went well and all were resected and it remains cancer free, however, my right lung could not be resected completely because I had spread to my plura. Dr. Rolle removed what he could and I came home.

I had a very positive experience with Dr. Rolle. I really liked him and found him to be a caring and attentive doctor/surgeon. It cost me approx 12,000 eruo per lung and this included up to a two week stay, the surgery, private accommodation and they also provide some rehab before you leave. My parents accompanied me and stayed in a building on the property. This was included in the cost. I stayed about a week longer after each surgery before flying home. This was an additional expense, but it gave me a chance to see some of Germany. We travelled to Berlin as well. I had ten spots removed from my left lung and six from my right.

Get your scans to Dr. Rolle, he will review and let you know asap. They are pretty fast at scheduling as well.

I hope this helps. Search my posts, I've written about my experience.

Good luck
cb <3
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

JDinNC
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Murphy, N.C.

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby JDinNC » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:54 pm

Cb75,

I was looking for laser lung surgery in the U.S. and found an old post from you. You had mentioned back in 2013, that Princess Margaret cancer center was starting to do laser lung surgery. That was two years ago, have you heard any more news on how successful their treatments were?

Jan
61 y/o female @ DX...........
T3N0M1
6/13 DX- stage 4
Sigmoid colon cancer.
One met to lung
7/13 colon resection
8/13 lung resection
FOLFOX with avastin
7/15 two years...NED

MELANOMA
63 y/o @ DX
6/15 stage 2a
7/15 surgery on arm
7/15 NED
4/16 recurrance
5/16 metastatsis to back

ilivebyfaith
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Hi Mastan and cb75,

Thank you for your responses.

I will be shooting an email today to start our engagement. I hope the email in the site is still recent.

My husband is due for CT this week, will include his latest results for dr Rolle's consideration.

How easier this might be if it's available in the U.S. And if only they can be as experienced and aggressive as dr rolle.

@cb75

I hope it's really in the 12000euro per lung range and not 30000 to 40000 euros per lung. As we need to laser both lungs. It's a relief that I can stay in the facility and it's already included in the fee. I have started to look for hotels that can accommodate me, prices are stiff.

O/T I think staying there a few days after the surgery is a good idea to do a little sight seeing.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

ilivebyfaith
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:18 am

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby ilivebyfaith » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:47 pm

@ JDinNC

hi.

I searched the net when you mentioned Princess Margaret, I stumbled into this link

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.h ... ung-cancer

Is this what you're referring to? It's in Canada.
Carer to DH 42, DX MCRC IV mets liver,lungs 9/9/14;Wild type, KRAS/NRAS nonmutant; Folfox 3x Folfox+Vectibix 3x CTscan, liver mets gone, colon tumor 12 to 15cm, lung mets inc (31-R, 19-L); Change: FOLFIRI + erbitux 6x, colon and liver clear, progress in lungs. Change: folfirinox + Avastin 12x, lung metastasectomy, molecular profiling, folfiri + erbitux, progression, will be switched to stivarga PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS!

JDinNC
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Murphy, N.C.

Re: Laser Lung Surgery in Germany

Postby JDinNC » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Livebyfaith,

I was reading your post regarding your husband and the hope of using laser lung surgery. Since I like to research, I wanted to see if there were any laser lung surgeries done in the US. One of Cb75 post popped up, where she mentioned laser lung surgeries being done at PMCC. If they have perfected the technique, I thought it might some way help you with being closer to home.
The site you posted is talking about treatment in the UK. Cb75 talked about Princess Margaret cancer center in Toronto, Canada.
Good luck...
Jan
61 y/o female @ DX...........
T3N0M1
6/13 DX- stage 4
Sigmoid colon cancer.
One met to lung
7/13 colon resection
8/13 lung resection
FOLFOX with avastin
7/15 two years...NED

MELANOMA
63 y/o @ DX
6/15 stage 2a
7/15 surgery on arm
7/15 NED
4/16 recurrance
5/16 metastatsis to back


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