BUTT HURT

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O Stoma Mia
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:29 am

Re: On preventing butt pain

Postby O Stoma Mia » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:12 am

BrownBagger wrote:... The whole soluble fiber thing was a revelation to me. In addition to their other benefits, soluble fiber sources like white rice are digestive system lubricants. They keep it all moving. I noticed when I had the ileostomy that after eating rice, I'd always get a nice clean slide when draining the bag. I didn't figure out until later that it was the soluble fiber slicking things up.

Kenny -

On a different thread, Eric made reference to the soluble/insoluble fiber distinction, which I think is one of the main keys to avoiding butt pain in the first place. To deal with butt pain, I think the preference would be to prevent it from happening at the outset if at all possible so that you don't ever have to focus on what kind of treatment to apply.

From my point of view, prevention involves four primary dimensions, all of which have to be dealt with at the same time. These dimensions are:
  • Acidity of stool: The acidity of the stool must be minimized to the greatest extent possible. A lot of this is under the control of the patient by avoiding foods and condiments that are acidic or spicy in nature. This means focusing on a very bland diet. There are various leaflets available to help the patient identify foods, beverages, and medications for minimizing acidity of the stool output. I think that pain is likely to occur in the rectal, anal, or anastomosis region whenever acidic stool content passes through.
  • Bulk/hardness of stool: The stool needs to be small and soft, not hard, because large, hard stools will expand the anastomosis junction and/or the anal canal and cause severe pain. Large stools can also cause anal fissures, which will cause even more excruciating pain. This is where the soluble/insoluble fiber issue comes into play. The softness of the stool is largely under the control of the patient if the patient pays attention to what is put into his/her mouth. This includes medications, since some medications can cause constipation as a primary or secondary effect. This means that the patient needs to focus on diets that have the right kind of fiber and the proper proportions of other ingredients. There are various leaflets available in this area to help patients identify which combinations of food/beverage/medication/supplements will reliably yield a soft stool. You will want to avoid a hard stool at all cost because this can cause an anal fissure, which will then take a long, long time to heal. A large, hard stool might even cause a rupture or leak at the anastomosis junction, which is an even more serious problem. You will also want to avoid large stools due to eating large meals. This is why the standard recommendation is to eat 5 or 6 small snacks per day and to never eat a very large meal.
  • Method of wiping/cleaning: I would say that the preferred method of cleaning oneself after a bowel movement is to use water spray (e.g., bidet or small hose with nozzle). The worst practice is to use rough toilet paper with a scraping motion or wet wipes containing noxious chemical moisteners. Some problems with surface butt pain are exacerbated by patients using an inappropriate method for self cleaning.
  • Exercise/physical movement: The normal functioning of the intestine is facilitated by normal body movement, such as walking. For good intestinal motility, it is bad to be horizontal in bed all day or in 'couch-potato' mode. The body should be in a vertical position a majority of the time to prevent extremes in digestive function (i.e., diarrhea, constipation). To facilitate regularity of bowel movement and to facilitate the reliable production of soft, semi-solid stools, physical exercise is an important component.

So, I would recommend focusing on preventing butt pain first, rather than waiting until the only option left is to treat butt pain or seek its relief in various creams or preparations.
.
Keywords: butt pain, butt burn, proctitis, rectal pain, radiation pain, sore bum hole, sore bottom, painful anus, anal pain, sore butt, anal fissure

pog451
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Re: BUTT HURT

Postby pog451 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:55 am

I am so feeling your pain. my current Irinotecan Tx is blocking me up something chronic and until the "dam breaks" two or three days after infusion I go through hell. Im also a martyr to acidic stool, rectal tears and fissures and just general overuse.

Ow.

Luckily my wife has some good narcotics for back pain, so if the Ibu or paracetamol isn't bringing it, I pop one of those.

Im a fan of psyllium husks too, but keep forgetting to take them.
09.11 Dx @ 46, uT3uN1M0 G2
11.11 radio+Xeloda
01.12 LAR
03.12 Xeloda
09.12 Liver mets, 2 LN
09.12 Folfox+Avastin
02.13 Resection
04.13 Folfox & Avastin
11.13 Local recurrence
02-07.14 FOLFIRINOX
08.14 Re-rediation
Left us 28.05.2015

KWT
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Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby KWT » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:54 am

That's a good post o stoma Mia, thanks for that.

It seems this is just another pain in the butt we all have to go through.

Sophy, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this on a permanent basis.

Pog I hope the dam breaks soon so you can get some relief.

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BrownBagger
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Location: Central NYS

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby BrownBagger » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:03 am

pog451 wrote:I am so feeling your pain. my current Irinotecan Tx is blocking me up something chronic and until the "dam breaks" two or three days after infusion I go through hell. Im also a martyr to acidic stool, rectal tears and fissures and just general overuse.

Ow.

Luckily my wife has some good narcotics for back pain, so if the Ibu or paracetamol isn't bringing it, I pop one of those.

Im a fan of psyllium husks too, but keep forgetting to take them.


I get something similar in about the same timeframe, post chemo, Pog. I've noticed that it's gotten better over time. For the first couple of infusions, my rectum swelled up and I got a fissure. Now, I drink a big glass of Metamucil for four days straight, beginning on infusion day. That takes care of most of the constipation, and I think it helps minimize the swelling. My biggest complaint now, after my digestive system wakes back up on day 2 or 3, is the frequent urge to go. I try to control that with Lomotil and Imodium. If I balance the two remedies correctly, I can get by with a minimum of discomfort and disruption. When I get butt burn (not always), I resort to Calmoseptine.

Anyway, my point its that my body tends to adjust to the chemo side effects, lessening them over time. I'm hoping you see similar results. Good luck.
Eric, 58
Dx: 3/09, Stage 4 RC
Recurrences: (ongoing, lung, bronchial cavity, ribs)
Major Ops: 6/ RFA: 3 /bronchoscopies: 8
Pelvic radiation: 5 wks. Bronchial radiation—brachytheray: 3 treatments
Chemo Rounds (career):136
Current Chemo Cocktail: Xeloda & Erbitux & Irinotecan biweekly
Current Cocktail; On the Wagon (mostly)
Bicycle miles post-dx 10,477
Motto: Live your life like it's going to be a long one, because it just might, and then you'll be glad you did.

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kellywin
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Location: Northern CA

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby kellywin » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:02 pm

kennyt-wisted wrote:Kelly
I didn't have radiation fun the first go around. Did the five day high dose and surgery I believe 7 days later. I did have some of this same pain while recovering from LAR surg. I'm guessing this could be radiation induced though


Kenny - hope you know I was teasing :D

When my sister was in the hospital last year for some serious health issues, she developed some wicked serious sores on the butt, UCSF compounded some ointment that has cocaine in it (sounds crazy). They said they usually use it in labor and delivery for pain. I tried searching, but I couldn't find the exact name or compound, but it was an ointment (probably zinc based?). It was hard to get, you had to get it at a specialty pharmacy that compounds, but it sounded like it was some good pain control.

Hope you get some relief soon.
Kelly, mom 13 yo girl
Dx 11/15/12 Rectal Cancer @ age 40
Stage IIIC
5.5 weeks Xeloda & Radiation - complete 2/5/13
Colectomy 3/12/13, 7 of 14 nodes positive - no ileo
4/24/13-8/20/13 - 5 rounds Xelox, 1 Xeloda only
7/2015 Clear colonoscopy!
4/2018 Clear CT!

KWT
Posts: 3214
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby KWT » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:08 pm

Of course I know you were teasing. I like it. I was going to ask onc for a serious butt creme I'd really be moving up in the world if I start using cocaine laced butt lube.

teachpdx
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:29 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby teachpdx » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:30 pm

I'm just going to put this out there in case it might help someone. I too was experiencing butt pain after my surgery (before reversal) and I got pelvic floor physical therapy. Made all the difference in the world. I actually delayed my reversal so I could finish my PT. For a woman they go in through your vagina and help relax the pelvic floor muscles. Not sure what they do with men :shock: Best of luck Kenny :? Kristi
4/24/12 RC T3N1M0 age 53
5/23-7/2 - 26 chemorad - Xeloda
7/16 Lynch- MSH2
8/28 LAR w/ temp ileo, CR, 0/11,M0, hysterectomy
10/13 6 cycles Xeloda - completed only 1 1/2 due to HFS
3/12/13 - reversal
8/13 NED
6/15 - HFS gone!

KWT
Posts: 3214
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby KWT » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:33 pm

With that being said, I think I'll stick with the pills for a while :shock: :shock:

Teddi
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Re: BUTT HURT

Postby Teddi » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:42 pm

First of all, so sorry about your heinous anus. My time is hopefully coming up in late spring. Because of my @$_(# insurance company I am having to do things a bit out of order. Currently am in chemo instead of recovering from my resection. I have to tell you how grateful I am that you haven't lost your sense of humor. You crack me up.

Teddi
47 at diagnosis
Colonoscopy, biopsy, CT, PET 6/14
Rectal cancer (tentatively) Stage III-b, MSS
Xeloda and radiation 25x finished 8/14
FOLFOX 5 cycles
Surgery 1/23/14 ~ T1N0MX ~ temp illeostomy
FOLFOX 3 cycles = total of 8
Illeostomy reversal 4/8/15
Clean scans x2, clear colonoscopy 9/15

justin case
Posts: 4227
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 am
Location: Katy, Texas

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby justin case » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:55 pm

Teddi wrote:First of all, so sorry about your heinous anus. My time is hopefully coming up in late spring. Because of my @$_(# insurance company I am having to do things a bit out of order. Currently am in chemo instead of recovering from my resection. I have to tell you how grateful I am that you haven't lost your sense of humor. You crack me up.

Teddi

Sorry Kenny to intrude on your thread, butt cocaine might work without mixing it with calmoseptine :roll: Perish that thought 8)
Teddi,
I did some major chemo and radiation before surgery to shrink the cancer before surgery. It is not pleasant, and I feel it was very beneficial to me.
Michael
7/11 diagnosed Stage 2 colon and rectal cancer
chemo/rad
lar/temp ilio
Reversal & port removal
21 round of chemo Folfox 9tx, 5fu 12 tx
Last treatment July 2012

KWT
Posts: 3214
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby KWT » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:47 pm

We're all Butt hurt here Michael. At times anyhow. I'm always happy to hear from a fellow nutcase.

Teddi, it would sure be nice if we could laugh our way back to health. When we lose our sense of humor we've then lost everything.

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CRguy
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Re: BUTT HURT

Postby CRguy » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:50 pm

kennyt-wisted wrote: When we lose our sense of humor we've then lost everything.

OR in my case ... what passes for a sense of humor ... :shock: :twisted:
BUTT ... HEY
I'll take what I can get....
So I took what I could get
Yes, I took what I could get
And then she looked at me with them big brown eyes

And said,
You ain't seen nothin' yet
B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet

Sorry folks ... have not had enuff great song lyrics here lately :mrgreen:

BUTT following on from my bro' kenny ...
If I can't try to laugh at life's joke on me then I am taking myself too seriously, and that gets me down. -CRguy


'nuff said !

Cheers All
CR
Caregiver x 3
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
11 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

Cathie
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:09 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby Cathie » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:13 pm

Well here is my simple pain reliever, butt pain reliever I mean. I sit in the bathtub with the hottest water I can stand. The water is so hot it leaves my skin bright red, NO SOAP, just water. When I can't stand the heat any more I get out. I dry off and make sure, did I say "make sure" the "butt burned area" is dry......really dry and then I put plain old vaseline on it and go to bed. It's the only thing that worked for me.

Cathie
Dx'd colo rectal cancer Oct 2002
radiation chemo November December 2002
Surgery Mar 2003 which was a temp ileo
Summer of 2003 more chemo
Ileo reversed Mar 2004
Cancer free since then

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CRguy
Posts: 9676
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby CRguy » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:55 am

Cathie wrote:Well here is my simple pain reliever, butt pain reliever I mean. I sit in the bathtub with the hottest water I can stand. The water is so hot it leaves my skin bright red, .......
Cathie

WELL you see Cathie ..... the guys here may NOT exactly wanna join you in the super HOT bath .... :shock:
'cos ... OK maybe that came out wrong :?: BUTT you see ... we GUYS may have a reason for NOT dipping our nether regions in boiling hot water ... butt pain be damned ... :twisted:

BTDT

NOT recommended ... BUTT JMO :oops:

Ya see I use a bidet ... so I can direct whatever water at whatever temp ... WHERE it needs to go and .....
how shall I say this ..... reduce any collateral damage ... ???

Kenny : the "guys" will thank you ..... BTDT !

cheers all
CR
Caregiver x 3
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
11 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

skypup
Posts: 2598
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:12 pm

Re: BUTT HURT

Postby skypup » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:10 am

live and learn, CRguy. i knew about the cold water issues, but this is news to me. lol


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