Discussions about Death

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Cb75
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Discussions about Death

Postby Cb75 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:06 pm

Recently we have seen quite a bit of bad news and loss here. I have also experienced some losses at the hands of cancer outside of here (different cancers). Lately, I find myself afraid to log on as every day seems to be more bad news. Since being diagnosed, I have been trying to reconcile my beliefs with this disease and to come to terms with the idea of death and dying and what the reality of this disease means. North American/Western culture tends to avoid the concept of death, except through some religious doctrine, but it is not really openly discussed or talked about. I think this is wrong. The one thing we are sure of is that we are all going to die. The question that is unanswered is when? This, no one knows. I stand firmly on this fact. However, what happens when you die? There are a lot of theories and beliefs. I was raised Catholic, but am not practicing. What I would like, if others are interested, is to start an open, safe and frank discussion about peoples thought on death and what happens when you die. I know this is highly controversial, but I would like to hear others perspectives and opinions of all backgrounds and denominations. I know that this could help me form my own thoughts as things unfold...

thoughts?

Carmen
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

KWT
Posts: 3214
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby KWT » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:18 pm

Carmen,I'm mainly concerned how my kids are going to cope with my death. I believe when we die we are just dead like flicking off a light switch. Depressing I know but nothing else makes any sense to me. I wish I could believe in the man in the sky, but the more suffering I see the more ridiculous this idea of god and heaven seems to me.


Sincerely sorry if I offend anyone.

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Voxx66
Posts: 1844
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Facebook Username: Michael Void Ward

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby Voxx66 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

For me - it's unknowable. But that doesn't mean I can't logically understand some things - particularly I think it's possible to discern what doesn't happen. Conventional ideas of Heaven and Hell and the criteria for determining ones destination are for me at least, fairly easy to eliminate as real possibilities. As to what I believe in a positive sense - I suspect after we die we are the same as before we were born whatever the heck that means.
DX and resect 10/2012 age 46
Stage IIa CRC
liver mets both lobes 8/2013
CEA 28
FOLFOX + Avastin 8/26/13 3 rounds
Folfox only 3 rds + rd 8
platelets low round 7,9,10 5FU only
1/14 CEA 1.0 y90
5fu
10/14 mets lung and peri
1/15 Folfiri

andy21
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: N California

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby andy21 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:30 pm

My belief is as below and welcome any discussions on forum or through email:

Human body is a vehicle for human soul. When one dies, it means that the body was no longer conducive to keep the soul.
Soul is a subtle form of energy that can neither be created nor destroyed. So soul lives forever.
After death, the soul combines with the ocean of energy in Universe but also keeps it's individual identity like a spec of sand on a beach.

Each human desire has an imprint on soul and once the soul is free of body, it's imprint can take it to a new body as nature tries to attach souls with the right vehicles.

A very simple example can be that if a person has very strong wish to live at Arctic, his soul will carry that imprint and that soul may next reside in a eskimo in next birth.
It's also possible that a cancer patient in next birth becomes a top cancer researcher and finds cure for cancer.
Caregiver: To 67 Yr father
diag. Stage IV, 5/12, liver mets
6 cycles Xelox/Avastin, Start 06/12
Stage 1 of Two Stage Resection Surgery in Dec, 12. 2nd line fails.
T Cell Trial May-Jul, 2013
Becomes a Heavenly Angel in August, 2013

janklo
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:10 pm
Facebook Username: JanetKlostermann

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby janklo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:18 pm

Andy, that is a very nice thought and explanation. I do believe the soul lives forever. I know I get messages from my daughter who died of cancer. You just have to be aware.

This spring in our suburb, a teacher who retired last year at age 55 was rising his bike on a beautiful spring day. An 82 year old driver hit him nd killed him instantly. I feel it was his time to go, the fact of him riding there and the elderly driver coming around the corner. That incident helped me believe your time to go is predestined and you can't change it.
Mom to 28 yo daughter
colectomy 2/22/10, stage 3C, signet cell
7/2011 peritoneal mets
HIPEC September 2012, difficult recovery
Hospice 10/31/2012, Died 11/16/2012

vickitwo
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:56 am
Location: USA

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby vickitwo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:16 pm

This is a subject that I think about often. I love to hear other peoples take on it. I feel that my beliefs are a work on progress. I do believe in God (higher power, creator etc). I think this symphony has a conductor. In my opinion, the world is way too complex for it to have evolved just by chance and the right conditions. I believe that Jesus' teachings are good instructions on how to live one's life. What a wonderful world it could be if everyone loved one another as themselves. With all of the pain, suffering and unfairness in the world, it is difficult to understand how a loving God could let it all happen. I have a hard time understanding just why we are here. I tend to believe something along the lines of what Andy said. I don't think that there is a hell unless you consider this it. I don't think that a loving God would create people with all of their weaknesses and then condemn then to eternal hell for it. The concept of reincarnation where the soul learns and evolves makes much more sense to me. This to me is more in tune with a loving God. :?
Vicki

DH Dx 1/2012 @ age 52
stage IV CC
transverse colon,omentum, cecum,liver,lungs,L5
9 rounds of Folfox, Avastin,
5FU/Leucovorin/Avastin
radiation tx to L5 and hips
Folfiri/Zaltrap
12/13/13 Folfox/Avastin
1/4/2014 passed away @ Hospice House- age 54

JDinNC
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Location: Murphy, N.C.

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby JDinNC » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:46 pm

As a person raised in a strong Christian background, I have always been interested in ghost, spirits and the hereafter. Over the last 50 years, I've experience enough unexplained events that tell me there are things beyond normal logic. My whole thought of death, heaven and God have changed as I've gotten older. I do believe there's a God or greater being but I question whether we weren't put here by a greater force.

As children, we were told that when we die, we go to heaven. Of course, now looking towards the heaven and knowing it goes on and on through the universe, we ask where is heaven ? I believe that religion has become so commercialized that we have lost the true spiritual meaning of it. My Baptist neighbor tells me, that everyone that have died are still in the ground and our spirits won't be released to heaven until the second coming of Christ. So does this mean my family won't be there to greet me when I die..?

The truth is...I believe heaven is actually dimensional which our mind can't see now. Maybe even connected to some sort of time travel. As I'm writing this, my mother or father could be watching me right now...but my brain won't allow me to see them. Even the thought of this makes me so emotional that it always causes me to cry. They say we only use a very small portion of our brain.....what if we can use our whole brain ?

I feel when someone dies, their spirit is earthbound for a few days. During this time, they give us signs to let us know that they are ok. As i have experience this 3 different times. I believe in guardian angels, spirits, ghost, orbs, reincarnation....

I just hope I die peacefully and that the other side is as beautiful as I hope. And if there is no life after death, I guess I'll never know because I'm dead. My fear and sadness is leaving my family behind.

I could go on and on with other thoughts..but I'm afraid you might think I'm crazy
61 y/o female @ DX...........
T3N0M1
6/13 DX- stage 4
Sigmoid colon cancer.
One met to lung
7/13 colon resection
8/13 lung resection
7/17 four years....NED
8/18 five years....NED
MELANOMA
63 y/o @ DX
6/15 stage 2a
7/15 surgery on arm
7/15 NED
4/16 recurrance
5/16 remove metastasis from back
5/16. Started immunotherapy
8/16 discontinue treatment
7/18...PET scan...NED

KWT
Posts: 3214
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby KWT » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:02 pm

I hope know one is watching over me all the time I had a lot of fun with some of my old GFs I didn't think anyone was watching :shock: :shock: :shock:

Why do they have to leave signs? If their just hangin around why not just let is know without all the games.? I saw someone here talking about a book that tells you how to recognize the signs. If you need a book they're not leaving very good signs.that authors making a mint selling that silliness to grieving people. On the other hand maybe it helps them. I'm just a born skeptic I guess. :roll:

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CRguy
Posts: 10229
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby CRguy » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:24 pm

Sometimes life.. is what it is, but may not always be what it seems.
Death ... even more so.

CR
Caregiver x 4
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
13 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing totally randomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

skypup
Posts: 2598
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:12 pm

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby skypup » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:48 pm

kennyt-wisted wrote: I saw someone here talking about a book that tells you how to recognize the signs. If you need a book they're not leaving very good signs.


LMAO!

behconsult
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:53 pm

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby behconsult » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:58 pm

CB interesting question. I have been working with individual's with a variety of diagnoses, i.e. strokes, heart, cancer, MS, ALS, Parkinson's, etc. as a rehab psychologist for years. I have to get into a patient's mind and spirit and stay with them on the journey. Now I have cancer. I believe that we are spiritual beings in physical bodies, and not the other way around. When I think of my death the hard part will be leaving my beautiful two kids and wife and I pray I can be there to see them grow up (ages 6 and 4). I grew up without a dad and so did my wife. We know the pain even in adulthood.

On the flipside, I see a lot of death at work and how much grace is available at the end. People learn and grow by leaps and bounds, it was quite a privilege to witness. I believe every hospital bed is sacred, and all the suffering is Holy. I find comfort in some of the NDE books that I have read. I believe life continues on.

There is a huge need to death education and for people to put their "internal life" in order as early as possible. Peace, Bob
Stage 4 Age 56 BrafV660E 5/14
spot on perit/ Right side tumor
Resctn 6/9/2014
Folfox strt 7/2014. 6 of 12 tx
Chemo induced DM2
Pet 4 mets to lung (1 cm, 6 mm) Xeloda/Avastin 9/16 to present.
Cryo-ablation to four spots- Collapsed lung/chest tube 2x
Possible local recurrence in a spot or two on PET. Stable CT

Carolinabluetec
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:52 am
Location: Greenville, SC

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby Carolinabluetec » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:12 am

My only concerns about death are related to how my wife of 47 years will deal with my absence. If I am correct in my beliefs then I will be moving on to a better existence. If I am not, then I will not know. I am at peace with what is going to come eventually.
03/14 DX Adenocarcinoma Sigmoid Polyp
05/14 Da Vinci Sigmoid Colectomy
06/14 T3N0Mx, staged IIa
07/14 Xeloda 3000 mg/day 14 on/7 off 8 rounds
12/14 Finished Chemo
01/15 CT NED :D
07/15 Colonoscopy NED :D
08/15 CT NED :D
03/16 CT NED 8)

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singingholly
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Location: Northern Italy

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby singingholly » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:11 am

I believe there's no loving father waiting for us. I think that something divine is inside life itself: in this sense God loves us, because God is Life and life wants to live and we are a part of It. Personally I can't accept the idea of dying before time, killed by this disease, because too many things are left to do and this would mean too much pain for people who love me...
These are the only things I think to know about death...
Dec2011 sigm IIIst res T3N1(2/18)M0 Xelox
Oct2012 5liv.mets Dec 2012 liv.res
Jan2013 1liv.met Folfiri+avastin
Jul2013 liv.res Folfiri+/av
Feb2014 10+2lu.mets & 1abd node Folfoxiri+SBRT
Sep2014 Res rx l. BUT spot on diaph:SBRT
Dec2014 3+6lu.mets.Immuno

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Bev G
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Facebook Username: Bev Golde
Location: Quechee, VT

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby Bev G » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 am

I'm not good at the whole tech thing, but I'm trying to post a link from my FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=75 ... =2&theater

Who knows if it will work. If it does, I hope many of you will watch it. It took my breath away.

My precious sister-in-law Carie made this comment:

Carie-- Bev- is it possible to believe that God could love us and delight in us this much??
July 19 at 12:07pm · Unlike · 1

Beverly-- To believe, yes. To imagine? No, I can't.
July 21 at 10:16pm · Like · 1

Beverly-- (I really have been thinking about my answer to that for 2 days, Carie)
58 yo Type1 DM 48 years
12/09 Stage IV 2/22 nodes + liver met, colon resec
3 tx FOLFIRI, liver resec 4/10
9/10 6 mos off chemo, Neg PET&CTC CEA nl
2/11 finished total 10 rounds chemo

9/13 ^17th clean PET/CT NED for now

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Bev G
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Facebook Username: Bev Golde
Location: Quechee, VT

Re: Discussions about Death

Postby Bev G » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:51 am

I've realized I have more to say about this, to better clarify my thoughts about death, I guess. This beautiful little girl, beautiful though she is, obviously has some form of cerebral palsy. She is utterly and completely dependent upon others for her survival. Nature has forced her to be humbled. Almost certainly she has normal intellect, but she will never walk and may or may not be able to talk. I do not believe for a moment that she, or her parents, were being "punished" for anything when her prenatal accident determined that this would be her life. Shit happens. I don't believe there is a "why". Looking for a "why" that works, I'm convinced, is a total waste of time. Now, look at her dad. Just look at him. 100% love and compassion. He will love and protect her, cherish her, watch out for her no matter what. He kneels before her. He doesn't take his eyes off her. He lives for her. He knows she could not survive without him. As much as I hate children's beauty pageants, he sees his handicapped daughter, despite her disabilities, and the most beautiful, most precious, being in the world. And he's right.

What I think about God is that he sees each of us in exactly this way. I believe he grieves with each of us, and that we are not alone in our suffering. I believe that he hears all of our prayers, but for whatever reason, a reason we do not have the capacity to understand, our will is not always his will. I firmly believe though that his will is for our perfect peace, and that at the end of the day, when our time has come, we will somehow be able to see how it all made sense, how our suffering was both temporal and temporary. How there is no grief and no death that Heaven cannot heal. I just simply cannot fathom how anything else makes any sense at all. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed (on Earth anyway). How could our inherent energy (our souls?) just cease to exist? Nah. I think our eternal life will be in an infinitely better place, where (someone here said) we won't have cancer to talk about anymore.

JMHO.
58 yo Type1 DM 48 years
12/09 Stage IV 2/22 nodes + liver met, colon resec
3 tx FOLFIRI, liver resec 4/10
9/10 6 mos off chemo, Neg PET&CTC CEA nl
2/11 finished total 10 rounds chemo

9/13 ^17th clean PET/CT NED for now


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