Fasting Trial Study

[Mastan]

It seems to me that one must take account of your activity level to find a reasonable fasting routine. I work full time and try to maintain a strenous aerobic training program. Those activities require signiicant calories. Also, one should be careful to not get run down as this would imply a stressed immune system. I fasted thurs and fri this week and I am going on a 40 mi bike ride tomorrow so I will probably find myself in trouble because of depleted glycogen stores.

[Ashlee H.]

It should be made very clear that you should not fast before chemo unless your ONC is aware and on board with it. For so many reasons, for many people, fasting would never be an option. If you are having chemo and still very active, then you must be handling the side effects extremely well. If you have had a lot of weight loss, then fasting is not for you. Again, fasting is not a cure. They are hoping it helps the chemo and gives you longer good quality of life until something is found to cure cancer. This is only information as another option. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. USC was finding that is one of the biggest problems with the study - people don't want to do a true fast - the lab rats had no choice in the matter - but they got great results.

[Badass]

No protein, no carbs? Doesn't that just leave fats?

I would think that no carbs, high protein and some fat would be good because that would get you into ketosis.

[skypup]

Seems some cancer cells (maybe just brain cancers, not sure) can get fueled by protein, thus the limit on having only moderate protein in the ketogenic diet. The reason for the high fat (but we're not talking about bacon!) is that ketosis is the process of the body using fat for fuel, so "good" fats are all to the good, so to speak. The real ketogenic diet is crazy high in certain fats -- really hard to do! it's not the same as a regular low carb diet. And the USC fasting protocol isn't for an all the time diet, just for around and while on chemo. My little regimen is just my way of doing the fast in a way that I can stick to and that makes sense to me. The research reports out there on fasting and chemo are really easy to read, btw, if you want to go to the source.

I like what Ashlee said about being careful with this, and that it's not a cure.

[Savsmom]

I'm def following this thread. I very curious about this. Was going to talk to my onc on we'd about this actually. I would stand on my head if it would help!

[Mastan]

I talked to my Onc about fasting and his response was to not make yourself sick by too much calorie deficit. I am interested in the fasting approach but need to find a practical implementation given my current activities. I want to maintain my physical fitness because I believe that helps the immune system and allows one to tolerate chemo better.

[skypup]

I talked to my Onc about fasting and his response was to not make yourself sick by too much calorie deficit. I am interested in the fasting approach but need to find a practical implementation given my current activities. I want to maintain my physical fitness because I believe that helps the immune system and allows one to tolerate chemo better.

Yea, that's so true. This stage IV CRC thing is an art, not a science. I can't exercise a lot anymore because it exacerbates pain levels, so it's an easy thing for me to try. Keep riding that bike! I bet you eat healthy, too...

[Badass]

Well, I have folfiri this Wednesday through Friday. I started fasting this morning-- so far just water and tea. I don't know how long I can keep this up but I am willing to give it a try! I didn't find the original research but I read "about" Valter Longo's work. He is marketing a kit called "Chemolieve" that includes nut bars and vegetable broth to help folks get through the fast but it is not available yet. I am not finding anything consistent or specific about including any particular foods during the fast- just little hints intimating that plant based foods and maybe some fat here or some broth there might help. If anyone has links to anything more specific, I am all ears (and stomach)! Otherwise, I will just stick to water I guess.

Jane

[Badass]

Just an update... I emailed Longo with questions and got a boiler plate response but I thought I would share as it gives me a little pause. He said the fast should be 3 days before and 24-48 hours after chemo. As Ashley already pointed out, for those of us on 5fu (plus irinotecan) that would extend the fast to 7 or 8 days. He also said that re-introduction of food should focus on highly refined carbs for the first day (pasta, rice) plus fruit juice and soup. But what concerns me is that adding food too soon after a fast with chemo can be really hard on the liver ("an early re-feeding after the chemo could cause liver damage because of the combination of hepatotoxic drugs with the proliferation of the liver caused by fasting"). Given that my liver is already struggling due to the pump chemo as well as the folfiri, I don't want to cause my liver chemistry to make me ineligible for the chemo. I just wanted to share this info and caution for others considering a fast. It is exciting to read the research and see the correlation here anecdotally between fasting and good results for Ashley and Skypup!

Jane

[Ashlee H.]

Unless you made it clear to him, I'm sure the response would be if you were on a one day chemo (which from my understanding is what the trials have been testing). We often forget there are so many different cancers with just as many treatments. Guess we just have to wait and see how this all shakes out. I wanted to share one thing I use to get me through fasting. My mouth is always dry and tastes terrible. There is a water called "MetroMint" - I think it is made up in the San Francisco area (you can get it on Amazon or a place like Bevmo). I like the peppermint and the chocolate mint water. I get it really cold so there is some ice in it. It's a little expensive (about $1.50/bottle), but you can dilute it with water and get twice the amount out of it. I have no connection to the water - just sharing a tip that helps me.

[Mastan]

From my reading about fasting it is trying to accomplish the same thing as a ketogenic diet. The idea being that cancer cells can't use ketones for mteabolism. The body works to maintain blood sugar levels however so any of these approaches end up reducing blood sugar and increasing ketones. As such, this approach is shades of grey because one can lower blood sugar by simply eating foods that produce a low glycemic load. One practical way to do this is by monitoring blood sugar to see that one has effectively lowered it. In my view one takes this as far as one wants to without causing oneself to bonk.

Mark

PS. Yesterday i fasted and ended up with a migrane. Have not had one of those in years so it is likely a result of the fast.

[skypup]

Mastan, I think you've made it clear that this is not the right approach for you. I respect that, but I really don't want you to keep raining on what is working for me. There is no right answer for all of us and we don't need to convince others we are "right"'. I wish you and I nothing but good fortune in our fight, no matter which paths we walk.

[Mastan]

Skypup,

You are reading too much into my last post. I believe that keeping one's blood sugar low is beneficial. I reported the migrane because it is a log of what happened to me. I did that to document a possible consequence of fasting. That was not done to discourage people from trying it but rather to log an outcome. We all have different metabolisms and consequently do not respond the same to various eating habits. I am still working on a strategy to keep my blood sugar low. I have experimented with low carb dieting in the past and while it kept me very trim it also kept me very irritable. Apparently my brain isn't very efficient at making serotonin (sp?) so when I go low on carbs I get cranky. Just ask my poor wife!

Mark