On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily enema

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Cb75
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby Cb75 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Coffee enemas are supposed to also help with detoxification, especially for the liver. It can help your body get rid if the dead cancer cells as well...I haven't tried it, but I have a natural type of doctor who recommends it. I may give it a shot and see what happens.
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

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CRguy
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Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby CRguy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:54 pm

Hey Carmen,
please take this post in the exact spirit in which it is intended ........ sharing my own experience ... YMMV.

I am an Integrative practitioner (vet) certified in herbals, acupuncture, western medicine and laser therapy and surgery.
I can do all kinds of things under my license and will bring anything to my patients I feel is valid and warranted for their best standard of care.
I have worked with "alternative" practitioners, Naturopaths, Homeopaths and Holistics since 2001.

Enemas are a valid treatment modality for some therapeutics, for some patients and I have used them on patients when needed, to deliver medications to treat certain conditions.
...... BUTT ! .........

I like MY espresso coming IN the front door..... NOBODY be giving CRguy a double double in da' BACK DOOR ! :shock:
know what I'm sayin' ????

I have trained with and practiced with all kinds of folks who give lectures and train other practitioners, for 15 years.

You need to make 110% sure you know what and with whom you are getting into, with this.

JMO and just because I care.
..... always on some kind of Journey.
CRguy
Caregiver x 3
Stage IV A rectal cancer/lung met
10 Year survivor
my life is an ongoing NONrandomized UNcontrolled experiment with N=1 !
Review of my Journey so far

jeanette57
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:40 am

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby jeanette57 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:36 pm

lots of fruit - watermelon and such help also. Sounds terrible! Get better asap :oops:
T3 N0 M0 -1-4-12 to 3-2013- NOW stage 4 terminal
mets Lungs & bone - halo on head (not to many can see unicorn horn)
chemo for life or until I quit

Jachut
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Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby Jachut » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:18 am

I was never able to solve the cramping issue - but my issue was different. I never had the urgency, frequency and clustering, instead i had a badly scarred, fibrotic and non distensible pouch. Liquefying my bowel contents was the only way I could evacuate. It was always incomplete and I always had cramping. It was also only possible when I already needed to go, i couldnt do it at my convenience.

Cb75
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby Cb75 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:50 am

Thanks CRGuy, I wasn't too keen on the idea. But, with everything going on I'm almost ready to try anything. I'll skip it....

Cb
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

tammylayne
Posts: 2146
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:24 am

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby tammylayne » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:13 am

For anyone cramping...are you using just plain tap water and NOT the fleets with chemicals? Also, can you try playing the the amount of water and the speed of the flow? I actually measured today, I use 500 ml of water , but I used to use double that and it was too much for me. I played with the amount to find my comfort level.

I wonder about calling one of those businesses that do professional colonics and ask them what they recommend to their clients for the cramping? I am sure they see this all the time and if you talk to someone that is professional and has been doing it a long time, they might have some good, safe ideas to try.
51 F
'06 Stage 1 CC,
'10 Stage 3 Rectal

"You never know how strong you are until you have to become your own hero."

ams5796
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:07 am

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby ams5796 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:04 am

Believe it or not, I read this thread with envy. I try the daily enema from time to time because I know it would be a great solution for me. So many of you have had such great results. I can't get past the cramping. I honestly have tried everything. Maybe, Tammylayne, I'll try less water and experiment with the speed. I don't know if I have some scar tissue or something "in the way." I feel great right after I do it, but hours later (maybe about six or after I eat) I feel like I fill up with gas that won't pass. I'm also very bloated at that time. It's really miserable. I put up with it for a few days thinking it will get better, but it almost seems that each day gets a little worse.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this thread active again. I'm always inspired.

Ann
Stage 3C (or 4?) Rectal Cancer 01/07
2/10 lung mets
3/11 VATS
6/11 VATS
7/13 lung met
2/14 SBRT
NED 8/14
5/17 scan and MRI found spine met that had been treated
7/17 breast biopsy

lauragb
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Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby lauragb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:00 pm

I'm still one of the enema-ites and for the most part it works well for me although I have had a few issues. Even with issues, using enemas gives me good quality of life. Most of the time, I can go through my day without worrying about the bathroom which is a big improvement over clustering for several hours at a time. I still need to watch what I eat so that I don't become constipated. I never dreamed there was such a thing as a constipated enema, but meat, too much dairy, refined foods don't want to come out even with water. The upside is that I get to eat healthy all the time, enjoying salads and fruit every day. Sometimes I'll skip the enema for a day and even at 48 hours, I'm not going. I thought about checking how long I would go without having a BM but with work don't want to try that experiment right now.

For cramping, like Tammylayne, using warmer water helps me as well as controlling the speed. Since I had surgery for a blockage over a year ago, I have pain sometimes when about to open the floodgates. I am going to check into this because however brief, it is pretty bad.

Ann, I don't have cramping with the enema but sometimes do about an hour after I eat lunch. It is a build up of gas that usually releases as one big fart and then it's over. Weird, kind of like my BMs, nothing wants to come out. When I do occasionally have a BM on my own, I have the same pain as I get before the enema floodgates but it goes on for a while. So no surprises for me, I know have to poop for about twenty minutes before I do.

Anyway, while I can't say I enjoy the enema or want to share the experience with someone like I read about when initially doing research :lol: , I am glad that I have this as an option. One more thing I just thought of is that I started taking a strong probiotic a few months ago. I have had issues with blood counts going down since the blockage surgery and think adding the probiotics has helped my absorption since the counts are trending upward.
RC 3B 7/2011 @ 53
Chemoradiation 5 weeks 8/11
LAR-Hysterect-temp ileo
pCR, 0/23 nodes
Folfox 1/12, Xeloda 2/12 to 5/12
Reversal 5/12
SBO,lysis of adhesions 12/12
NED 11/12, 11/13, 6/16

Peloton
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby Peloton » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:31 pm

tammylayne wrote:If anyone has ANY questions...please ask, post or PM me. I will tell you anything you want to know I put my pride in my back pocket many years ago...


Me as well. Please feel free to ask me any questions about my routine.

tammylayne wrote:Also, can you try playing the the amount of water and the speed of the flow? I actually measured today, I use 500 ml of water , but I used to use double that and it was too much for me. I played with the amount to find my comfort level.


This is good advice. The main problem I have is trying to find the right balance between getting enough water to ensure a good clean out, without using too much water that will lead to cramping. Also, I'm fairly certain that speed of the flow is fairly important. If it's too fast, some water might not get where it needs to go.

I've been doing this routine for 18+ months now. I'm still tweaking my routine and playing around with the right amount of water.

Like most things cancer related, finding the right enema routine takes patience. Lots of patience.
Diagnosed Stage 3 rc; 30 y/o M - 8/10
Chemo Rad - 8/10 through 10/10
FOFLOX 4 rounds - 10/10 through 12/10
LAR - 1/11; 12 out of 13 nodes positive, stage 3c; T4N2M0; temp ileo
FOXFOX 8 rounds, 6 w/ Avastin - 2/11 through 5/11
Ileo reversed - 7/11
NED

smudgesicle
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Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby smudgesicle » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:29 am

Do you guys have any idea how long after reversal one should wait before trying an enema? I'm 8 weeks out and having a terrible time with urgency, frequency, clustering, burning...basically you name it, it's happening. I'm getting to my wits end but I'm not sure if it still might be too early to try the enema?
dx May '13 @ 29
RC T2N1bM0, Stage IIIA
7/13 chemoradiation
9/13 ULAR (pCR) & right hemi due to large "precancerous" appendiceal tumour, temp. ileo
11/13-5/14 5FU, 24 rounds
1/14 SBO & takedown
8/14 NED
9/14 perm. colostomy

lauragb
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:25 pm

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby lauragb » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:42 am

Smudgesicle,
I started trying the enemas at 8 weeks. One day and night, I had a 15 hour clustering session and decided that was it. I also wanted to travel to the beach for a vacation. I read a lot about it first and started directly using the bag type enema with tubing and clamp, using warm tap water. I would ask your surgeon first before trying anything. My surgeon is "old school" in which using enemas is accepted practice and was told that many people who have had low tumors end up using them to improve quality of life.

After vacation, I stopped using the enemas for a while and had some improvement but was still usually clustering for an hour in the morning and 5 hours in the evening so went back to enemas for a much better quality of life. There are many threads on here about using them. It seems most people have waited longer after reversal to use them but I couldn't tolerate the discomfort and time involved in what was happening with me.

Please feel free to PM me if you have questions.

Take care,
Laura
RC 3B 7/2011 @ 53
Chemoradiation 5 weeks 8/11
LAR-Hysterect-temp ileo
pCR, 0/23 nodes
Folfox 1/12, Xeloda 2/12 to 5/12
Reversal 5/12
SBO,lysis of adhesions 12/12
NED 11/12, 11/13, 6/16

noegoleft
Posts: 19
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Location: Here.

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby noegoleft » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:01 pm

I've been a frequent- almost Daily- user of enemas since about age 15. I'd had a few before then but 15 was when I'd been taught the basics of proper procedure. This is supposed to be COMFORT as well as mere mechanical function and it so does not have to be torture for effective results.

Simply put, the essential details are going to be a bit subjective for each of us. We often categorically overlook the creation of Safe Space both emotionally and physically =Phone set to Voice mail- NO one able to walk in on us- Scented candles and music if that works for you. TIME to know we;re unrushed- I devote at least an hour even though my basic procedure can be maybe 15 minutes of that as 5 mins of setup-5 mins to run a bag in and no effort to retain- just up onto throne and empty. I will of course be wearing my washable cloth pads for a long time after as worry reduction:>

In totality- Think of it in perspective... I do-- WE do - our enemas to be at comfort and we deserve the effort it takes to feel good.

I almost forgot-It's worth examining the breathing/focus/massage techniques used in Lamaze as the sensory management is arguably similar. Effleurage type massage and panting has helped me immeasurably some days. As even if I'e done everything "just so" I still need help.

Honestly- in my experience, this almost deserves a checklist approach. One advantage of that -being we can easier note what cause to effect we can get by oh- bag gher or lower- warmer or cooler water- salt-baking soda- mild soaps such as Dr Bronner's or Goat Milk Soap and so on. Some of us have fond that a *SMALL AMOUNT* of VERY MILD soap acts as a surfactant/softener more than any irritant factor ans that's "why" soap suds enemas were/are a medical reality. Use common sense and delicate caution of course while discovering what works for you. A diary approach can help fine tune your best results. It did for me. Coffee is controversial and I won't make dramatic claims other than saying that it has a place in rotation of solutions for me/many of us. Back to that sort of checklist.


Height of the bag= for me- usually top of bag 19 inches above tub's bottom.

Water temperature= for me- usually 105 F in the bag checked with digital thermometer.

Solutions other than plain water= As above/ usually 1 teaspoon per quart of salt and one teaspoon of Baking Soda if I am planning on prolonged=more than ten minutes holding. Soapy coffee is even more controversial but it's worked impressively well for me to make 2 quarts of diluted coffee with a smallish amount of Camus brand Goat Milk soap flaked/dissolved in. Summary - use common sense again.

Location- IF we can get in and out of a tub comfortably the relief from leak worries is a miracle! Old towels for comfort helps too.For me - tub and towels.

Positions= for me- usually starting on left side, 1/3 of bag taken with my hand sort of "feathering/flutterring the clamo to manage pressure for comfort balanced against not being there all day. I then clamp hose, roll onto my back unclamp repeat using that flutter motion of clamp to manage pressure, take 1/3 clamp- roll onto right side- again repeat clamp as needed. Often I will either return to my right side or back for retention as long as is comfy. Whatever pose lets us hold it comfortably is best for us so to speak,

Retention time= This is the biggest variable for all of us. I have had days of it being agony to get even a quart in with no hope of holding at at all. and other days of digesting 2 or even more quarts with almost effortless ease. On those days of either extreme- I listen to my body and try to act accordingly. Unless I am situationally needing to tough it out and get emptied for work etc, I will concede that it's not always going to work. IF it is an easy day- I wind a timer for 5 mins- and will re set a few times til max 15 mins unless it's coffee that I try a half hour for. I've honestly fallen asleep with a quart of coffee in me. Some of us can make that 3-5 mins average most times and call that Good Enough.


The last few sort of checklist items are advanced considerations such as more defined abdominal massage and even exercises while full. Details on that another time.
Male, Married.
DX Stage 4 2010.
2010 resection of 12 inches sigmoid, resection of bladder 50%

Cisplatin and Folfox- 2011

Continuing neuropathy and incontinences.

Updates as needed:} Hopefully good.

cornerbookshelf
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:45 am

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby cornerbookshelf » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:03 pm

Hi

Since being diagnosed with stage II RC last January, this thread has been THE most helpful. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I had my takedown a month ago and yesterday was the worst. I was beyond despair -- no BM control, can't leave the house, endless clustering. The discovery of this thread is a god-send. I ordered my enema off Amazon and it's due for arrival today. Fingers crossed, but I'm ready for some good developments. Thank you so much for all the regular posters -- Tammy, Laura, Pelon -- you guys rock.

I have a question: with the daily enemas, Immodium is still a part of the regimen, but what about metamucil? Are you guys still take fiber supplements or just Immodium now?

And thanks again.

Eddie

tammylayne
Posts: 2146
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:24 am

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby tammylayne » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:26 pm

I do not use immodium or metamucil....I dont have to, Before I started the daily enema I was a 10 - 14 immodiums a day gal,,,,and they did nothing. I tried fibre - made things much much WORSE. Now I do my 30 minute "thing" as I call it - every day...and I. AM. DONE. Love it love it love it...

PM me if you want all the procedure details. Graphic, but very helpful I am told :shock:
51 F
'06 Stage 1 CC,
'10 Stage 3 Rectal

"You never know how strong you are until you have to become your own hero."

lauragb
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:25 pm

Re: On surgeon's advice, going to try the - gulp - daily ene

Postby lauragb » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:43 pm

I don't use Imodium or Metamucil either. I never could use Imodium because it backs me up too much then finally results in going for hours. I have adhesions and Metamucil can' cause pain going through. But it doesn't matter because I don't need the stuff either. Since you have only been reversed for a month, you may want to talk to your doctor. I will also be glad to answer any questions.

It has really turned out to be the best option for me!
RC 3B 7/2011 @ 53
Chemoradiation 5 weeks 8/11
LAR-Hysterect-temp ileo
pCR, 0/23 nodes
Folfox 1/12, Xeloda 2/12 to 5/12
Reversal 5/12
SBO,lysis of adhesions 12/12
NED 11/12, 11/13, 6/16


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