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kiwiinoz
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:44 pm

Question

Postby kiwiinoz » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:53 pm

Hi Guys

Now I am very aware that I am stage IV, and that there is a big chance that this is on its way to being systemic so I am not trying to fool myself here but there are a number of people that have been at this stage between localized cancer and systemic cancer and have been cured. I'll be having chemo for 6 months and we'll wee how effective that is but my question is fairly simple.

There have been studies done to show that exercise & diet can reduce the odds of a recurrance. I know that mostly applies to stage II & III, but would it also apply to stage IVers?

I'm eating well, taking what I belive to be good supplements for me, and have been carrying on the exercise, although it is hard to do so after VATS.

I'm not trying to clutch at straws and I realize that what will be, will be no matter how much I worry about it. I'm still going to carry on doing what I do either way but am really interested in the science behind this part of it. I know a lot of you are far more knowledgable that I could ever hope to be in this regard to am hoping for some good advice on this.

Kiwi
Stage IV Rectal Cancer (39 Year old male at dx)
pT3N0M1 (wish that was M0)
Diagnosed 05 Dec 2012
LAR 05 Jan 2013
VATS 27 Feb 2013
FOLOFX April 2013 - Sep 2013
Clear Scan 03 Dec 2013 - 22 May 2019
Port Out 26 March 2015

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KarMel
Posts: 1523
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:48 pm
Facebook Username: Karin Gray
Location: Indiana

Re: Question

Postby KarMel » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:30 pm

I know of many folk who believe exercise reduces chance of recurrence, plus it is good for you, so by all means, keep that going.

Regarding food and diet, ....over the years here at CC, some of most spirited discussions have been about diet. Restricting this or eliminating that, etc, etc.
There are two books I found reasonable references for healthy eating, ESP re fighting cancer

Steven Pratt's. --- Super Foods

David Sivan schreiber...Anti-cancer diet

I expect some might disagree or express an opposing opinion. I also recommend you see what your onc suggests.

FYI.... When I was first diagnosed, my onc told me to eat whatever I wanted.if it made me happy and enjoy life, eat steak and lobster and baked potatoes every night if I wanted. He was not optimistic about long term survival. :?
Stage IV, April 2009.
Treatments...multiple .
Currently none
"It is well, with my soul"

Cb75
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Question

Postby Cb75 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:17 pm

I thinkthat anything you can do to be healthier can help with recurrance or to get through a recurrance and further treatment if necessary. I also believe at some supplements can help keep the cancer under control and improve the immune system. karMel recommended two books. I have read AntiCancer. I found it inspiring and helpful. It pretty much advocates and supports exercise, diet and supplements along side conventional treatment.
39y female Stage IV
diagnosed April 2012
sigmoid resect May 2012
liver resect Aug 2012
Folfox Oct 2012
lungs Sep 2013
R and L laser lung resection Nov 2013/Feb 2014
FOLFIRI and Avastin Apr 2014 ongoing...

SkiFletch
Posts: 6361
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:39 pm
Facebook Username: Michael Fletcher
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Question

Postby SkiFletch » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:05 pm

Studies are/were underway on stage IV folks to try and flesh out how effective exercise was for them at preventing recurrence following "curative" attempt surgery. It's definitely been proven for stage II/III folks to be one of the best ways to decrease your risk of recurrence. My personal, completely unfounded in science guess/theory is that exercise will also benefit stage III/IV patients, just not with the same magnitude of benefit. I enjoy exercise most of the time anyway, and I love endorphines and senses of goal-accomplishment, so I'm a bit of an exercise junky. I'd do it whether I have cancer or not. But, cancer may get me motivated to do that 6th day in a row when normally I might wuss-out for 5 :).

As far as diet for stage IV patients goes, here's my opinion. Eat what you want, with as much attention to moderation as possible. Extremes on either side of the dieting world are not good for you. Having a diet of wings, beer, burgers, fries, and cake is going to be detrimental to your health even if you don't have cancer. You're gonna feel like a sloth. Going to the other extremes and cutting out every "bad" thing imaginable (red meat, fat, sugar, carbs) isn't going to save your life. In fact, going full-on raw vegan juicing crazy is probably going to make you feel weak-er as you'll lack protein necessary to repair cell growth damaged during treatments. If you've got 20, 50, 100+ lbs to loose, then OK, you can try and eat healthier to loose some of that weight. You'll probably end up feeling better and the emotional boost of that accomplishment is greater than many folks realize. If you're otherwise relatively healthy, there's no reason to go into any diet extreme.

It's OK to treat yourself to a vice now and again. Eating that steak dinner once a month... Not going to turn your cancer into an implacable killing machine. That ice cream cone will not stimulate your tumors to run amok. Don't feel guilty about eating something you enjoy once in a while. I've been doing it for going on 3.5 years now and I'm doing just fine
11/13/09 5cm Stage IV 9/25 lymph nodes w/2cm peritoneal met at 29 YoA
12/15/09 LA right hemi-colectomy
6/16/10 Folfox FINISHED
8/10/10 Prophylactic HIPEC
10/9/10 got Married :D
Still NED and living life to the fullest

"Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life."

lizzie217
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: Question

Postby lizzie217 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:05 am

Hi Kiwi,

My father was diagnosed at stage III in 2011 and ever since his surgery in August of that same year he adopted a vegetarian and sugar free diet. It has worked for him because he believes his diet prior to diagnosis may have contributed to his cancer. I have to tell you I was impressed with the way he handled treatments, and it may or may not have been because of his diet, but he did not experience nausea during chemo and he did not lose any energy. He did not miss one day of work during his radiation and chemo treatments (he is on his feet all day as he work at a retail store--he carried his FOLFOX pouch to work). To this day my dad has a vegan protein smoothie for breakfast and includes a green juice at lunch as well as a number of supplements and vitamins recommended by his naturopath and oncologist (after interviewing a few oncologists we knew we found the right one when he recommended a sugar and red meat free diet).

I think diets are personal and you need to do what feels good to you--my dad says he has not felt so energized in a long time and he enjoys eating this way. Before embarking on a new regimen, I would recommend seeing a complementary medicine expert (naturopath, acupuncturist etc.) that can help you make the choice that feels right for you.
Dtr of 60 y/o father,RC III 3/30 T4N1M0
6/11dx CEA 8
8/11 LAR perm colstmy
11/11, 28 rds rad+Xeloda
1/12, 2 rds of xeloda
2/12 change onc,now FOLFOX
(Turmeric, milk thistle, probiotics, green tea, vit.D, vegetarian+no dairy+no sugar)
3/12 Clean PET

kiwiinoz
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:44 pm

Re: Question

Postby kiwiinoz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:56 pm

Hi All

Thanks for the feedback. I think that the biggest thing that I have struggled with is the total & utter lack of control over any aspect of this disease. I always felt that there was so much going on behind hidden doors that I got no input into and that I was then given the answer. Fortunately for me at this stage the answers have been better than anticipated so I am certainly not complaining but the lack of control has frustrated me.

Thus I have tried to compensate by changing my diet and exercise. I never had much of a bad diet, but I worked too much and after finishing work at 8 or 9 coming home and cooking was far from my mind so I had takeaway more often than I should, and I love cooking so I could some delicious feed (even if I say so myself) on the weekend that had more cream and red meat than I perhaps should have but I would not put myself in the bad diet catagorey as I always tried to compensate by eating well in the morning and doing some sort of sporting activity a few times a week.

I have adopted a much better diet, perhaps even a little too hardcore sometimes. I don't even get to Ski's moderation in moderation.

I used to run a lot when I was in my early to mid 20's up until I turned 30 and work became a much bigger priority so I have about 8 lbs to loose to get back to what I weighed when I was in my early 20's and as soon as I can get back to running (maybe next week) after VATS.

I'm really interested to see how much lung capacity I have or don't have after VATS. I guess that will determine my exercise regime, although Eric (BB) promised me that I would not notice the difference in lung capacity and given his hardcore exercise I am going to have to rely upon him.

My Onc is into diet and exercise as "the best tool in his armoury" so I think we have the same thinking, although he didn't know of any studies that were done on Stave IVers and exercise. I guess it would be hard to prove anything as obviously having a metastatic cancer is a lot different to having lymph node involvement.

Thanks for the replies.

Kiwi
Stage IV Rectal Cancer (39 Year old male at dx)
pT3N0M1 (wish that was M0)
Diagnosed 05 Dec 2012
LAR 05 Jan 2013
VATS 27 Feb 2013
FOLOFX April 2013 - Sep 2013
Clear Scan 03 Dec 2013 - 22 May 2019
Port Out 26 March 2015


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