Let it die its own death

[mm66ny]

Sorry, but I don't get locking Fede's "my last post" thread. The mods said it served its purposes and Eric said, in response to PCLGreg's post that it's when it devolves to "nonsense" it's time to lock it. But if it's generating a discussion, why lock it? Who are the mods to say its served it's purpose or s nonsense. All threads "serve their purpose" but they don't all get locked.

I think when that happens, it's kind of an insult to all f the members. We can all decide fr ourselves if we care or no longer care about a topic, and whether it's a "distraction to this board." for Pete's sake, we all make life and death decisions about our own treatment without the mods telling us what's worth considering or not, but we can't decide what threads we're interested in or not?

Give us more credit than that. Eric, you're about the coolest person on this board, but some of your comments of late, like the one to PCLGreg on Fede's thread, and in your capacity as a mod, have been downright condescending.

I don't envy what you do, and I don't claim that I could do a better job, but your tone as changed.

The thread would have died of its own accord.

[BrownBagger]

Threads like that one (and probably this one, though I'm not blaming you) create a lot of work for the mods behind the scenes--work that isn't apparent to the rest of the board. We are accused from all angles of being unfair, no matter what we do. That just comes with the territory, but it creates a lot more work for us, because we have to confer with each other, confer with the admin, etc., on how to handle member concerns. Then we make a call. What purpose was that thread serving? Was it worth it? Not in our judgement.

I don't mean to be condescending to anyone on the board, but any time someone brings up the "free speech" issue, it just causes a lot of heartburn. Greg and I go over the same, well-worn argument every time he gets a whif of "censorship." It gets old, and I guess my frustration shows through. This board is not a place where people can say anything they want, any time they want. We have a mission, and the mods and admin are charged with guiding the discussion to the benefit of the majority of the members. The First Amendment doesn't apply here.

I suppose that I should have just locked the thread without comment, and ignored any complaints. But I feel some responsibility to the people here to explain what we're doing, and why. That's going to change, BTW, because the powers that be have concluded that it's counterproductive for individual mods to get drawn into controversies. I'm beginning to see their point.

Moderating is a thankless job. I think we can agree on that. Any change in tone can probably be traced to that simple fact.

[SkiFletch]

In my close to 2 decades of using them, I've rarely seen message board drama "die of it's own accord." It tends to perpetuate itself like this through small remarks and passive-aggressive writing. Shall we set an over-under on number of posts before this thread is locked too? I'll probably take the under.

[mm66ny]

Eric, I agree, being a moderator is a thankless job, and it's easy for someone like me--who is not a moderator--to comment on the job you're doing. I get that.

And I agree with you--as an attorney--the First Amendment does not apply to this board, although I will say the concepts behind the First Amendment are to ultimately lead to some truth through discourse, the marketplace of ideas, etc. But, yes, you are correct, in the legal sense, for now, the First Amendment does not apply to this board.

But, and I understand Fletch's defense of you, it is not an easy call to make sometimes. I would just err on the side of "too much talk" than on the side of "let's shut it down before it gets out of hand." It serves some purpose.

And for you to explain where you're coming from--that is of utmost importance. Understanding where someone is coming from is necessary to understanding what the person is doing. We may or may not agree with you, but the courtesy of an explanation benefits everyone.

[mm66ny]

By the way, if you need to lock this thread, I have no objection. I disagree with Fletch's comment that it won't die of its own accord. As someone who has also been a user for close to 20 years, I can say people get tired of certain threads after a time. And if they don't, heed the message.

[mm66ny]

In my close to 2 decades of using them, I've rarely seen message board drama "die of it's own accord." It tends to perpetuate itself like this through small remarks and passive-aggressive writing. Shall we set an over-under on number of posts before this thread is locked too? I'll probably take the under.

What was passive aggressive about my writing? I was direct, dude.

[SkiFletch]

Yours was very direct, other posts in the locked thread were what I was referring to

[weisssoccermom]

I'm only going to give my perspective as both a member of the board and as a moderator. First of all, I tend to agree with Fletch. These threads often don't just wither up and die, but dang, as a member and as a mod, I really wish that they would! If you go back and take a look at some of the posts, the same one or two arguments keep getting brought up over and over and over again. It does get old and eventually, one has to ask what purpose the thread serves. Furthermore, if you go back and look at what some of the original comments were...way back on page 1 or 2....most of the time you'll see that a few words here, a few words there are 'quoted' and someone's original comments are taken out of context and all the crap starts flying, innuendos are being hurled and, if, as most of us contend, the purpose of this board is to help one another, then ask yourself HOW is it helping any of us, or a newbie, if one or more are hurling accusations and the the others are defending themselves or others? On a very simplistic level, you just have to step back and ask, in all honesty, if the discussion has just turned into a complaint thread and is nothing more why keep it open?

You also have to remember that this board is not about one or two people but about everyone. What may not be evident is the number of complaints that we, either as mods receive or the admins receive about the direction of the thread, the accusatory tone, etc. Do you ignore members who may express their displeasure via PM's as opposed to those who are more active on the forum? Are those members who, for example, report a post or send one or more of us a PM complaining about the attacks or the direction of the thread any less important than those members who prefer to post on the thread itself? My point is, as Eric stated, there are a lot more underlying factors involved than most people realize.

You're never going to please everyone so you make a judgement call on what is best for the board all around. Then, in this case, you ask yourself, is page after page of the same complaints, of the same people being 'attacked' (on both sides) really worth it...no matter how you look at it? When it does seem to 'die down', someone brings the same old arguments back in the limelight again and it starts all over again.

Call me old fashioned and perhaps somewhat naive, but I truly wish that there would be more of the Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would have others do unto you) implemented on this board. Just something to think about.

[hannahw]

It seems like the argument is often "we're all adults who are capable of making decisions for ourselves" and in your real world life, that's undoubtedly true. But in cyber-world, especially because of the anonymity, there are plenty of people who make poor decisions and it leads to flame wars. And it only takes one time. You could make good decisions a million times and then one post really makes you angry, you feel provoked, post something nasty you wouldn't ordinarily post and now there's a mess for the mods to clean up. I've never seen a board that didn't have at least some trouble with this. If everyone made good decisions all the time there wouldn't be a need for mods.

[horizon]

Fede's got a thread where he can have a willing audience and a drama filled thread was closed. Seems like a great solution to me. What exactly is the purpose of this thread? To cause more drama? You could have easily sent this in a PM.

I think the mods are doing a great job.

[sadysue]

I totally agree with Horizon. My hat is off to the mods on this board. Not an easy or pleasant job at times. Thank you for the work you do!

[SkiFletch]

And just somthing else that came to mind. A curious title for a thread on a cancer support forum

[robinkaye]

Anyone notice that when a thread is shut down it's usually followed by more threads to discuss why the original thread was shut down only prolonging the death of the thread. I don't mean
anything by this one way or another, just sayin'...

[LurkingWife]

I knew what this thread was going to be about before even opening it. I feared this would happen once the other was closed. Sometimes leaving the original thread open can actually help the topic from "polluting" other threads.

I had nothing else to add to the thread, but closing it may have been a small step backward following the HUGE step forward that came with keeping an open dialogue. Regardless, Eric did a nice job of reaching out his hand to the forum membership! You were the one that showed you cared enough about what members think, and let's be honest...the members MAKE this club special, and do deserve some basic level of respect. We could use more mods like yourself, it's a tough job but you do it with empathy and class.

On that note...I find it extremely disappointing to hear that the "powers that be" as you called them have determined your efforts to be counterproductive. To be completely honest, your efforts on Fede's thread had me thinking that the CC was an extremely progressive, compassionate , and trailblazing organization that realized a forum of such a serious subject matter should indeed be run differently than other forums. That when we come here to talk about cancer, hope, fear, love, death...sometimes taking the extra time and effort to reason things out like adults is worth the additional time and patience.

This is not a forum for cars, sports, or woodworking. We don't have kids calling each other names here. I have moderated on several car-focused Vbulletin forums, and found that efforts such as yours do pay dividends in terms of goodwill with members. But this is not a car forum, it is serious stuff, and if giving the infrequent drama-filled thread some personal attention keeps things running smoothly, I can hardly see that as counterproductive.

[mm66ny]

Maybe I'm just a nut, but I don't see what the big deal is. I barely read Fede's posts: I can't deal with the all caps, he is difficult to understand, he is often slightly off point, but so what? Seriously.

As I see it, the job f the moderators is to control the flaming of other members--if even that. Where in real life do we have people saying "that's off limits.". If you don't like it, just ignore it.

And if the topic and thread are way off, people will let that person know, or they will just ignore it.

But the propect f deciding for everyone who may want to get into it on a thread that some find offensive, that this is not an appropriate subject, well that's almost like book burning.

Fletch, Bb, CR GUY, JAYNIE, Hannah, NWgirl, and who ever else, can't you at least see the other side of it? The side you so deplore actually does have some utility, if nothing else but to let everyone decide what their boundaries are.