Cancer and Faith?

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jmsawyer
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby jmsawyer » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:18 pm

What do you think of starting a new thread/topic that you could maybe help people struggling with faith, or help in understanding God 's plan in all of this?
People that don't believe in God do not have to read it, but those of us who do, might be comforted by your inspiring words.


Patricia Ann,

I don't know how "inspiring" any of my words would be, but I know that anything God has to say to us is most definitely so. If there is any way at all that I can be used to be a blessing or help to others who are enduring this disease and the treatments it requires I am happy to do it. We'll need a subject line that encapsulates our goal and draws attention. Put on your thinking cap. (Not the aluminum one that keeps the aliens away. That's a whole different thread.)

I have no desire to debate the existence of God or doctrinal issues. We just need to keep it within the confines of your post. You've already got my mind going. I'd like this to be helpful and positive. I don't have all the answers; don't even know all the questions, but I can share from my perspective.
2/17/12 Dx colon cancer 55 yo
3/20/12 Turned 56
3/23/12 Sigmoid resection, 3.2x3.0x0.7 cm tumor
4/5/12 Dx Stage IIIc, T3N2bM0, 9/22 nodes positive
4/24/12 Started FOLFOX

Ro. 8:28

annalexandria
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby annalexandria » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:13 pm

I have a great deal of faith...faith in the kindness of other human beings, faith in the beauty of the natural world, faith in the strength and generosity of my family and friends, faith that I am part of that natural world and when I die will return to it via the immortal matter of which I, like all things in the universe, am made. These are the articles of faith that have served me well over the last three years of battling cancer. I wasn't raised to be religious, and having cancer hasn't changed that, but I'm happy for those who find it brings them strength, just as my "articles of faith" bring me strength and allow me to live my life in the best way possible while facing challenges that are unimaginable to those outside the world of cancer. Ann
Mom, librarian
Dx age 43, Sept. '09, Stage IV Carcinosarcoma of the colon
5 surgeries, 2009-2011:
colon/sm. bowel res., node removal, peritoneum, hysterectomy
FOLFOX/Avastin Feb.'10-Aug '10
Carbo-Taxol Dec. '10-Feb. 2011
NED since Dec. 2011.

jennyjojjr

Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby jennyjojjr » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:57 pm

I did not lose faith in God, nor did I blame Him for my cancer or expect Him to heal me. In this life all of us will suffer, It is to be expected as a part of life. My dad lost all faith in God when his dad died of cancer and I believe that has something to do with seeing Him as a cosmic santa claus with the power to grant wishes or deny them as He sees fit. People curse Him upon dx, praise Him for remission, and curse Him again when treatment fails. Does that makes sense? Why would God heal one person who prayed for a cure, and let another who prayed just as much die? Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we will live a charmed life, nor does it say if we are "good people" that we will not have hardships. So I don't understand why when bad things happen God is so often blamed.

MissM
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby MissM » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Thank you all for sharing this.
1/8/12 Given a year left to live
8/30/12-12/18/12 Irinotecan & Vectibix
7/25/12 Ovaries Removed
6/28/12 Liver Resection
12/16/11 Colostomy Closure
6/26/11-11/10/11 FOLFOX
5/09/11 Colon Resection & Colostomy
4/29/11 Stage IIIC T4N2B @28 Years Old

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Gaelen
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby Gaelen » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:34 am

What do you think of starting a new thread/topic that you could maybe help people struggling with faith, or help in understanding God 's plan in all of this?
People that don't believe in God do not have to read it, but those of us who do, might be comforted by your inspiring words.


jmsawyer wrote:If there is any way at all that I can be used to be a blessing or help to others who are enduring this disease and the treatments it requires I am happy to do it. We'll need a subject line that encapsulates our goal and draws attention. ...

I have no desire to debate the existence of God or doctrinal issues. We just need to keep it within the confines of your post. You've already got my mind going. I'd like this to be helpful and positive. I don't have all the answers; don't even know all the questions, but I can share from my perspective.


Or maybe this discussion could be part of the "prayer" thread that already exists, because doctrinal issue debate will surely ensue if you pursue this.

This discussion has so far seemed (to me) to tightly draw the concept of "faith" in christian terms. However, this board is made up of multi-cultural, international members of many faiths - jewish, muslim, buddhist, hindu, wiccan, goddess knows what others...as well as agnostics and atheists. The spiritual makeup of the group is often assumed (by christians) to be christian....when that's not necessarily the case. It's just that the other faiths represented here are often reluctant to speak out loud because the atmosphere is simply unwelcoming to non-christians.

As one of those whose faith, or spirituality, or lack thereof, doesn't fit into one of the tightly-drawn christian categories, I often feel that christians have been the first to cry that they can't express themselves here - when in fact they're the ONLY ones expressing their religious leanings, and the only ones who'd dream of "sharing their faith" (i.e. forcing a faith-based discussion) on others, solicited or not! Rarely, jewish or muslim members will wish each other good holidays - and on more than one occasion, a less-informed christian has made fun of the salutation because s/he doesn't understand what they're talking about.

My own beliefs have been challenged and mocked by people who not only don't understand them, but don't even clearly know what they are (and frankly I'm reluctant to share in such a hostile environment.) As for talking about things and clearing up the mysteries and the ignorance - frankly, I come here for cancer support, not to share/witness/teach spirituality. For me, that should be a private thing in public places like this one.

I respect any individual's faith, spirituality or lack thereof...and will defend their right to observe and discuss those things in private. But I don't like anyone's spiritual beliefs paraded in front of me over and over again for my adoption, and I don't like it when any faith system is presented as the only viable option. Thing is, it's been my experience that only christians even consider taking that approach.

This is a secular, non-church affliated board that is about colorectal cancer support for patients and caregivers. I appreciate that here, I am not constantly entreated to take on someone else's god as my savior, or adopt someone else's beliefs...as I was yesterday by a well-meaning but clueless acquaintance who just doesn't get that there are other ways of expressing spirituality besides the christianity she feels will save her.

So please, think very hard before deciding that this is an appropriate place for you to witness, share your faith, whatever. There is already a prayer thread, where I'm sure this kind of discussion is welcome...more risks forcing your brand of "faith" on people who have NO interest in it.

And please realize that using the "people can just skip it in the thread list" doesn't cut it when it comes to religious discussions. One thread becomes two, becomes four, becomes eight. One person carries the witnessing into every post s/he makes. And before you know it, the idea that christianity is the only way to live life becomes pervasive throughout the site. I'm sure there are plenty of religion focused boards where that's acceptable - but here, it really does fly in the face of the people who AREN'T christian and don't care to have to sort through christian witnessing to find out cancer support information that doesn't include "did you pray today? pray, and god will handle everything!"
Be in harmony with your expectations. - Life Out Loud
4/04: dx'd @48 StageIV RectalCA w/9 liver mets. 8 chemos, 4 surgeries, last remission 34 mos.
2/11 recurrence R lung, spinal bone mets - chemo, RFA lung mets
4/12 stopped treatment

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cptmac
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby cptmac » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:33 pm

Bev,

Thank you soo much for sharing your story. I saw it on facebook so thank you for sharing it on there too. I don't bring up cancer on my facebook, in case it ever affects my employment. An HR person even told me it does affect businesses decisions, but they find others reasons to let go of individuals.

But I wanted to share my story...

I grew up with a Roman Catholic Father and a Buddist mother. My father was in the service and he wasn't always around to take me to church, so we went to my friends church, whether that be all denominations (other military brats will know what I'm talking about), baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. I was very religious and wanted to be a nun, but as a kid, didn't really understand that their was a different in faiths, just differences in what we called it. Even more so because I believe life is about the golden rule of "Do onto others" (As an aside, I was talking to a farmer, who was upset that people were stealing the wild asperagus that would turn up. Talked about how he did it when he didn't get asperagus, because perhaps that farmer didn't see it and he didn't want it to go to waste. So I reminded him of the golden rule. Everyone at lunch agreed, he opened himself up to that karma.) So I've been to all sorts of churches and am appreciate anyone who follows the golden rule.

But cancer kept my faith the same. It's helped me get through all the hard times in my life. And through those times, my faith helped me. When I was in basic training, and I, at 105 lbs, had to carry the same 50 lb ruck sack along with my rifle, canteen filled with water, etc... as the 250 6 foot guys, it was tough, but I made it. And whenever my load seemed to heavy to bear, I recited the lords prayer over and over again, and soon, my ruck sack seemed to be weightless. I know I could not have carried it by myself.

So about 6 months after I took a new job in a new city, I was comfortable. When I left my last full time job, I was also in the reserves and on my other weekends I was producing sports programs on the weekends. So I never had a moment to myself. So only having one full time job, and being on a couple of boards, I was a bit too comfortable. I asked the Lord to help guide the way into finding my next project. I was comfortable and ready to handle whatever he gave me. I soon learned that God has better things to do than find me a hobby. He chose for me to discover that I have Stage IV colon cancer with virtually no hope of survival.

Everything I have ever learned in my life, came into play to help me find a way. Not only a way for myself, but a way for others as well.
The first thing I did was buy a lottery ticket. What a great story that would be. Dying cancer patient wins $22 million. Didn't happen. Then, I read my horoscope. To my surprise, my horoscope said I was going to have major health problems, but if I saw a doctor at the beginning of the month, I would be fine. That was my first sign of hope that I would conquer this disease. It gave me the hope and the strength to continue on with my journey no matter that a lot of people thought my efforts would be fruitless. Afterall, none of us had ever met a Stage IV survivor. I looked at the stats and saw that some people did survive, and maybe, that would be me. Afterall, 5% seems to be my number. When I joined the service, women made up 5% of the armed forces. When I went into sports broadcasting, there were even fewer women. I never believed I would be the first person to do something, but I knew if it could be done, I might be able to do it. So I scoured the states for the right doctor for me (which really was finding a doc who would help me. I didn't have a lot of choices.) This was made easier, because I was dx'd on my birthday and US news and world report publishes the Best Hospital rankings every year on that week. What are the odds... I picked up the phone and started dialing.

I also picked up "What your doctor may not tell you about colorectal cancer by Mark Bennett Pochapin. It was published earlier that year. It was the first time I had heard of the HAI pump, and my gut told me, that it would work for me. I brought it to both of my surgeries. One of my docs was concerned that I was studying too much. That I should relax, that most people treat being in the hospital as a spa. I said no, I wanted to learn as much as possible and to make sure they were doing all the right things (Looking back, not the right thing to say to impress your doctor). He asked, "How are we doing?" (Realizing I may have just insulted the guy who was trying to save my life) "You guys are doing great. And this book assures me of that." He laughed. But one of the residents asked if he could borrow the book, he'd heard about it. I said no, I really do rely on it. It helped me ask the right questions.

When I had to pack all of my worldly possessions into two suitcases, I packed very little clothing. One suitcase had my bible and my prayer book, along with a bunch of research and books that I knew would help me. When I saw my first onc, he mentioned the HAI pump, and I knew I wanted it.

People ask me if I ever felt angry. I felt angry only once. I used to listen to loud music. I would be up by the stage and you could feel the music vibrate through me. Once when I was in the service, a cannon went off right beside me and I didn't have any hearing protection in. When I went for a hearing test, the audiologist said if I kept this up, I would have serious hearing problems by the time I was 25. So I almost never listened to loud music. Something I sooo enjoy doing. When I left the military at 41, I had better hearing than most people my age. So when I found out I was about to die, at 43, with great hearing I was p*****, P*****... I cranked up the stereo and didn't look back. Until many years later, when the prospects of me dying didn't look so good. So now I turn it up when a fav song comes on.

When I felt ill, or scared, I recited the lord's prayer over and over, until that passed. After my liver surgery, I was assigned a nurse with an illiostomy. She didn't tell me right away, but later told me that if I ever needed one, I could live with a colostomy. She said no one on the staff knew about it. It gave me comfort that if I ever needed one, that they were something I could live with. And that I should learn to better tune out my friends who said they'd rather die than have one. I also had a half Japanese nurse. I too am half Japanese. During recovery, she noticed my cheeks were swelling up. Something that happened to her when she got ill and also happens to me. I hadn't looked at myself in the mirror, because I've never cared much about what I look like, more so when I'm sick. And sure enough, my cheeks were swelling. She called my surgeon and in that weeks span I gained 40 lbs. But the docs worked on it dilligently until they figured it out. They would have figured it out later had she not been there, but she caught it right away. What are the odds.

After I was released from my liver surgery, and I had a follow up visit with my onc. He was a little concerned over some pain I had by my colon resection and gave me an ultrasound. He gave me some more pain meds. But how many oncs would have gone that extra mile. How many would have just given more pain meds and sent you home. While a friend was picking up the pain meds, I saw a white squirrel. I had never seen a white squirrel before, to make sure I wasn't delusional, I showed my friend when he came out. He couldn't believe it either. But I took it as a sign that I would be okay. Good thing because the ultrasound showed I had a serious blot clot and I was in imminent danger of dying. My friend was in shock, but I wasn't, wasn't the first time I heard this. Plus, I saw the white squirrel. Something good was going to come my way, whether that be death or life.

At work I met an RN. We were working on a program about Alzheimers, and she asked about my chemo. I told her I wasn't having any problems with it. She assured me it would get a lot worse. It never did. I did wonder why so many people want to concentrate on telling you the absolute worst. Where are the people who get treatment with no problems, surely that happens (I've since found some on this board, thank you for telling your story as well). I believe in planning for the worst and hoping for the best. But all around me were the people who would just say the worst. Or why would I go through this treatment when I was just going to die of this disease, afterall, there is no cure for Stage IV cancer.

Then, when people on this board, and other people I met, started slamming the fact that I was on a clinical trial. People said that HAI pumps weren't any good. People on clinical trials are just guinea pigs for drug companies. I tried to ignore what they were saying. On one of my chemo sessions, where you have nothing to do but think, I started having some doubts. Right when I thought it, on the screen that rolls underneath on CNN the words came up, studies show that patients on clinical trials do better than those not on trials. I thought, I can't believe that just showed up. But, thank goodness for long chemo sessions, I waited, and waited, and sure enough there it was. I never doubted that their are angels walking around to help us all the time. Sometimes we don't recognize the them. Sometimes we don't recognize the signs that God chooses to show us, but I have never had a doubt again. I also know that right now, God has other people he needs to help besides me. And I never ask him to help me find my car keys. I'm in the habit of putting them in a convenient place that I never forget where they are. I know that he will always be right by my side when I need him. He always has been there in the past, and will be with me in the future.

But the most valuable lesson I learned was, God has better things to do than find me a hobby. I've been able to find my own now, thank you.
cptmac
As long as you're alive, there is hope.
dx 7/04 stage IV
colon resection 8/04
liver resection 9/04 with HAI pump installed
Stage II trial w irinotecan as systemic and FUDR for direct chemo to liver via HAI pump
Cured since 9/04

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Stomatrooper
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby Stomatrooper » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:04 am

Faith, or lack of it, has not played a part in my Cancer journey as far as I can know.

I am not connected to any religion, never attended church, though have a reasonable schooling in Christian (New Testament) teachings and try to live by Christian values - these being just one, more-or-less as good as any other, basis for a good way of life (have no issues with most mainstream alternatives)

My faith is thus:

In the unlikely event that there is a God; and if he is good - he will look down kindly on a well meaning skeptic like myself - and should he not be good - then a lot of people have been deceived and I don't really want to know him anyway.


Each to their own
John, Diag. 20 5 2010 @55
Rectal, 2cm dia, 3cm from anal verge
T2N0M0
5.5 Wk Chemorad
ULAR Oct 2010
Temp Ileo, infection; blockage; incisional hernia
Takedown Jan 2011
Hernia fix - June 2011
Clean CT 2011; 2012 & 2015
Clean scope May 2013

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Icesk8tr
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby Icesk8tr » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:54 pm

Bev and cptmac,
Beautiful.... thank you for sharing.

Christine
Stage IV CC 2010

SoConfused
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby SoConfused » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:38 am

Hi there - I have been looking at this topic for a week and am finally ready to contribute ... I am not Christian ... but I am deeply spiritual and believe that we all worship the SAME GOD. Regardless of your religion - be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. - there is only ONE GOD.

I believe in GOD ... my belief in him and my faith in God is what has gotten me through the TOUGHEST, DARKEST year of my life. The first few days after diagnosis, the sheer fear and this overwhelming feeling of doom and gloom was ONLY overcome by saying prayers - by knowing he continues to love me and will hold my hands like he has so many times before.
Last edited by SoConfused on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stage IV CC

KimT
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby KimT » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:35 pm

My faith has been greatly strengthened by my two cancer diagnosis'. It has been in the hard times that I have really learned to lean on God. I do believe that God has a purpose for me and that includes my cancer. I like how Priscella Shirer has said it in her study on the book of Jonah. Sometimes God takes us to the hopeless place to show us the hope of Christ. Having cancer has opened alot of doors for me in ministry and has healed alot of family drama. It has helped my husband and I to grow closer and to appreciate each other more. That being said, I haven't particularly enjoyed my journey. I have had moments of begging God to heal me and even anger at God. I have never doubted His ability to heal me but I have learned to accept that in His sovereignty he has not done so. I have felt total freedom in my relationship with God to tell Him that while I trust Him and accept this journey, I wish He would take it away. I wish I didn't have to walk it. While I have not questioned my own faith, I think it's okay that people do. Cancer sucks. It's okay to be sad or angry.

@ Gaelen. I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss spiruality on a cancer message board. I would venture to say that it is the number one thing that helps people get through cancer. Whether it is christianity, buddhism, hinduism, muslim, wiccan or any other religion. I do not think that this board is overly Christian, despite the fact that it is probably the most common religion among us. There are very few threads discussing it. I have not personally seen any attack on any other religion from christians. I am not going to censure my beliefs for you or anyone else. For me, my faith is not compartmented into one area of my life, it is in all parts of my life. I do think about how and when I post about it. I do not have anything about it in my signature and I do not witness every time I post. It is not my job to save the world. When I feel God urging me to post, I do so. Most of the time though, I just simply pray for people. Even you.

I would urge you to not join in the discussions if it bothers you so or to use the foe function if you feel anyone is being overly zealous in their faith. I don't think that anyone has to shut down discussion of Christianity because you do not believe in it. It isn't against the rules of the board. We are from all walks of life as you said, we aren't always going to agree. And that's okay. This is IMO a very civil thread. The OP asked for other people's experience in faith and people have shared. Noone is trying to convert anyone else. It is just simple sharing.
2/10 dx colon cancer
right hemicolectomy 3/19/10
Stage 2a 0/43 nodes
Lynch syndrome
3/14/10 colon resection/ removal of metal clips
Nov 11 dx ovarian cancer

Patricia Ann
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Facebook Username: Patti Flaig Stippich
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby Patricia Ann » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:19 pm

First of all - Bev and cptmac - thank you for sharing your stories. They were beautiful.

I'm fairly new here and I probably don't completely understand how this all works. I don't want to create any problems. I was advised that my idea of jimsawyer maybe starting an inspiring topic thread wasn't such a good idea. Sorry.

It would certainly work by just posting in the prayer thread as a couple of people suggested. So I look forward to hearing your inspiring words Jim in that thread. Don't quite understand why people read threads that go against their beliefs when they know that what they will read will upset them.

I believe that through this (not so fun) journey of cancer, healing should be in the form of body and soul. But that's just my opinion. I was so devastated when I was first diagnosed that no doctor could have helped me get through it; it’s only my spirituality that has helped me wrap my head around all this crap.

Thank you for your suggestions Bev and weissoccermom, you made great points and I appreciate your help.

God Bless one and all,
Patti
Age 57 DX 6/07 Stage IIIC RC
Resection 7/07; 8/16 nodes
Folfox, 28 Rad Trtmnts w/5FU pump 24/7
NED 6/08
CT Scan 6/09, 6 mets to lungs Stage IV
Folfiri w/Avastan
Lung surg 2/10
Add'l mets to lung
Xeloda, Avastan & Oxi
Chemo stopped
Cyberknife

annalexandria
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby annalexandria » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:08 pm

"I would venture to say that it is the number one thing that helps people get through cancer". Hmm, I think this comment may kind of support Gaelen's concern over how these discussions tend to evolve. Wonder how I've made it through the last three years in such good shape (at least emotionally...physically I'm a bit of a mess) without any religion whatsoever?? Ann
Mom, librarian
Dx age 43, Sept. '09, Stage IV Carcinosarcoma of the colon
5 surgeries, 2009-2011:
colon/sm. bowel res., node removal, peritoneum, hysterectomy
FOLFOX/Avastin Feb.'10-Aug '10
Carbo-Taxol Dec. '10-Feb. 2011
NED since Dec. 2011.

KimT
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby KimT » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:57 pm

annalexandria wrote:"I would venture to say that it is the number one thing that helps people get through cancer". Hmm, I think this comment may kind of support Gaelen's concern over how these discussions tend to evolve. Wonder how I've made it through the last three years in such good shape (at least emotionally...physically I'm a bit of a mess) without any religion whatsoever?? Ann



That was meant to say "help many people get through cancer" Sometimes I get ahead of myself when I type and I was admittedly about to run out the door when I posted that. I did not proof read as well as I should have. I did try to be very tactful and non confrontational in my post.

I do appreciate what it is like to be in a religious (or non religious) minority. I lived 3 years overseas in a country where less than 1% of the population is christian. But I do think that spirituality topics do belong here. There should be support for everyone found here. For many people, that includes faith and prayer. I don't think anyone should be afraid to post about their faith. That includes any faith, not just christianity.

Again I will say that anyone who does not like the christianity posts should probably just avoid them. There is plenty of stuff that gets posted that does not apply to me. I do not participate in stage 4 discussions or caregiver discussions. I think there is room for everyone to find what they need here and leave the rest if it doesn't apply to them.
2/10 dx colon cancer
right hemicolectomy 3/19/10
Stage 2a 0/43 nodes
Lynch syndrome
3/14/10 colon resection/ removal of metal clips
Nov 11 dx ovarian cancer

Patricia Ann
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Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby Patricia Ann » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:21 pm

Ann,

I'm so glad you made it through the last three years being able to handle all the emotions that come with cancer. You must be very strong and/or have a great support system. Sometimes some people need more. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I wish nothing but the best for you and hope you continue to do well. I'm sure all of us whatever faith we have or don't have only want to help each other anyway we can to get through this horrible disease.

Peace,
Patti
Age 57 DX 6/07 Stage IIIC RC
Resection 7/07; 8/16 nodes
Folfox, 28 Rad Trtmnts w/5FU pump 24/7
NED 6/08
CT Scan 6/09, 6 mets to lungs Stage IV
Folfiri w/Avastan
Lung surg 2/10
Add'l mets to lung
Xeloda, Avastan & Oxi
Chemo stopped
Cyberknife

annalexandria
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Cancer and Faith?

Postby annalexandria » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Patti-no offense taken! Ann
Mom, librarian
Dx age 43, Sept. '09, Stage IV Carcinosarcoma of the colon
5 surgeries, 2009-2011:
colon/sm. bowel res., node removal, peritoneum, hysterectomy
FOLFOX/Avastin Feb.'10-Aug '10
Carbo-Taxol Dec. '10-Feb. 2011
NED since Dec. 2011.


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