Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

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Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:08 pm

Annie50 wrote:
weisssoccermom wrote:I should have also added that radiation is given for two main reasons. The one that everyone is aware of is to shrink the tumor. The other, just as important reason, is to 'sterilize' the lymph field around the rectum. Don't forget that that is equally important. While patients are given chemo with the radiation, the dosage of chemo is much less than when a patient has chemo by itself. In other words, you can't reliably count on the chemo during radiation to eradicate stray cancer cells. Sure the chemo helps but the majority of the work to help insure that cancer cells that may be in the lymphatic system (remember no radiological tests.....ultrasound, CT or MRI) is done by the radiation...and NOT the chemo. (Remember that no ultrasound, MRI or CT scan with respect to local lymph nodes is 100% guaranteed).


Thanks so much ..why don't they give a stronger chemo ? Is the radiation good enough to get rid of any lymph involvement or stray cells ? ..

Also, is there a reason you were able to have
Less radical surgery ? Many thanks ... xxx

Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:11 pm

NHMike wrote:The radiation shrunk my tumor by over 90% so it was successful from my point of view. In some cases, radiation results in a pathological complete response - it's been around for a long time and there's a reason for that.


Is that because it is successful do you mean ? Are the latest EBRM machines that need all this planning and physics etc to pinpoint more modern in that they try not to damage other muscle etc .. ? Thabks so much for your responses it is so helpful xxxx

NHMike
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 am

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby NHMike » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:38 pm

Annie50 wrote:Thanks so much ..why don't they give a stronger chemo ? Is the radiation good enough to get rid of any lymph involvement or stray cells ? ..


Radiation will eventually kill anything in its way. If the stray cells have left the area via the bloodstream, then radiation can't go after it as the therapy is isolated.

Chemo works through the bloodstream so chemo can help prevent spread that way.
6/17: ER rectal bleeding; Colonoscopy
7/17: 3B rectal. T3N1bM0. 5.2 4.5 4.3 cm. Lymphs: 6 x 4 mm, 8 x 6, 5 x 5
7/17-9/17: Xeloda radiation
7/5: CEA 2.7; 8/16: 1.9; 9/8: 1.8; 11/30: 0.6; 12/20 1.4; 1/10 1.8; 1/31 2.2; 2/28 2.6; 4/10 2.8; 5/1 2.8; 5/29 3.2; 7/13 4.5; 8/9 2.8
MSS, KRAS G12D
10/17: 2.7 2.2 1.6 cm (-90%). Lymphs: 3 x 3 mm (-62.5%), 4 x 3 (-75%), 5 x 3 (-40%). 5.1 CM from AV
10/17: LAR, Temp Ileostomy, Path Complete Response
CapeOx (8) 12/17-6/18
7/18: Reversal, Port Removal

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5878
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby weisssoccermom » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:38 am

The chemo is reduced because it would be difficult for patients to tolerate both at the same time. Hence the chemo is lighter. The radiation does most of the work but studies have shown that when chemo is added to radiation it increases the likelihood that the radiation will be more successful.
Actually not all patients have their tumor eradicated by the radiation. Many show some shrinkage....some show minimal...although the latter is rare. It is also very uncommon for patients to have a complete pathological response from the chemoradiation but it is not unheard of.
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 am

NHMike wrote:
Annie50 wrote:Thanks so much ..why don't they give a stronger chemo ? Is the radiation good enough to get rid of any lymph involvement or stray cells ? ..


Radiation will eventually kill anything in its way. If the stray cells have left the area via the bloodstream, then radiation can't go after it as the therapy is isolated.

Chemo works through the bloodstream so chemo can help prevent spread that way.


Hi thanks so much you seem so knowledgeable. Yes what worries me is waitibg these 2- 3 weeks since diagnosis to have the radio therapy planning and only starting next wed ! They seem so relaxed about it but surely it could spread in that time ? They don't seem worried .. ( say no clinical need to speed up ? Xxxx

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ocstacy
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:29 pm
Facebook Username: stacy

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby ocstacy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:32 am

Pardon my lack of modesty but passing a stool is like shiting razor blades. The doctor has prescribed proctofoam and proctocream Pardon my lack of modesty but passing a stool is like shiting razor blades. The doctor has prescribed proctofoam and proctocream


I am sorry you are going through that. My mom went through that exact pain that last summer and she explained it as "Ice picks" I remember after her last radiation tx which they didn't tell us but they use a much stronger narrow beam to target tumor so extra power. So a couple of weeks after my mom experienced the worst pain. I wish her dr. would have RX more but she was taking like tylenol with coating. You can't use zinc oxide during radiation but the nurse said she could after and that helps more than aquaphor I hear. My mom only used aquaphor. I remember I had bad hemmy's at one point and I cried my eyes out, cause it was a burning awful pain.. I had to take strong pain meds. Could you smoke MJ for pain? Just saying that it has helped others. Good luck and feel better!!!
Caregiver/daughter to dear mother age 78, dx 5/09/17 because of me!! :wink:
Rectal CA Stage 3 low-grade adenocarcinoma- 6 cm
Neoadjuvant start 7/10/17 ended 08/16/17
3D Lap. surgery @ Keck USC, Dr. Sang Lee 10/17/17 temp ileostomy
11/1 hospitalized abscess/hernia - home 11/06/17 antibiotics
NO LYMPHS INVOLVED! NEAR PATHOLOGICAL RESPONSE! YAY! :shock:
Took her last chemo med 05/10/18! Ileo reversal 07/24/18
1st BM after reversal 07/25/18 Anal Fissure 8/15/18
Me:1st Colonoscopy age 38. 08/17 Benign polp.

Eleda
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:28 am
Facebook Username: adele Morgan
Location: Ireland

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Eleda » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:56 am

Ann,,,

I'm not exactly sure TBH Ann because I was offered this surgery by my team as another option but would be done by a new kid on the block home from Boston, Shane Keelin,( he was an understudy of my original surgeon at one point in the US)

On this occasion I choose age before beauty and decide to stick with my origional surgeon and surgical option which was kind similar,,,, ULAR AND PART TRANSANAL!!!!!

it ended up being as as such because I had a tummy tuck 4 years ago and had a bad dose of skin necrosis and a lot of scar tissue so when they went to blow up my stomach with air it wouldn't work because of the scar tissue so I imagine that's why, ( pretty much working blind) and most of the complicated work was near the anal opening so makes sense really I suppose :)
but he was delighted with the proceedure and so was I so in the end I got the surgery that I turned down lol
Minimal recovery 3 lapo scars, one drain and that's it, hopefully the coloplasty will be sufficient enough for decent control afterwards

Only time will tell,
Don't panic about waiting for radiation,,, everyone does including me, I was DX DEC 4TH began radiation JAN 3RD it's a complicated process of mapping it tumor exactly so it takes time, and it's not going to advance within a few weeks, u've probably had it for years,,,

My head melt was waiting from my scan/mri results so I totally understand how Ur feeling,,,
Ur life is effectively on that piece of paper

Try relax because u can't change the results only deal with what they are ( easier said that done I know) I didn't sleep for 4 days waiting mine,,,,,

Think positive and hopefully u will have a good outcome

Adele X
SWF, 47
Mom to 3 sons 6/8/12
Dec4th 2017 colonoscopy for minor intermittent rectal bleeding during Summer
CEA 4.4
DX T3 L3C M0 2.5/3 cm above AV.
JAN 3RD started 1650mg Zelda 2xday, with 28 radiation
Did tagamet 800mg daily and 75mg IV VIT C WEEKLY UNTIL SURGERY and
Tumor reduce by 80% 1 LN still remaining
TATME May10th, temp illeostomy
10/07/2018 CEA 3
MMR INTACT
Began FOLFOX July 10th
24/08/2018 Allergic reaction so next infusion lucovorin and 5fu
CEA 4
Second attempt with oxi aug 12th

Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:54 pm

Eleda wrote:Ann,,,

I'm not exactly sure TBH Ann because I was offered this surgery by my team as another option but would be done by a new kid on the block home from Boston, Shane Keelin,( he was an understudy of my original surgeon at one point in the US)

On this occasion I choose age before beauty and decide to stick with my origional surgeon and surgical option which was kind similar,,,, ULAR AND PART TRANSANAL!!!!!

it ended up being as as such because I had a tummy tuck 4 years ago and had a bad dose of skin necrosis and a lot of scar tissue so when they went to blow up my stomach with air it wouldn't work because of the scar tissue so I imagine that's why, ( pretty much working blind) and most of the complicated work was near the anal opening so makes sense really I suppose :)
but he was delighted with the proceedure and so was I so in the end I got the surgery that I turned down lol
Minimal recovery 3 lapo scars, one drain and that's it, hopefully the coloplasty will be sufficient enough for decent control afterwards

Only time will tell,
Don't panic about waiting for radiation,,, everyone does including me, I was DX DEC 4TH began radiation JAN 3RD it's a complicated process of mapping it tumor exactly so it takes time, and it's not going to advance within a few weeks, u've probably had it for years,,,

My head melt was waiting from my scan/mri results so I totally understand how Ur feeling,,,
Ur life is effectively on that piece of paper

Try relax because u can't change the results only deal with what they are ( easier said that done I know) I didn't sleep for 4 days waiting mine,,,,,

Think positive and hopefully u will have a good outcome

Adele X


You are so chilled ... are you supposed to have ok bowel control during it do you know ? Xx

Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:57 pm

Annie50 wrote:
Eleda wrote:Ann,,,

I'm not exactly sure TBH Ann because I was offered this surgery by my team as another option but would be done by a new kid on the block home from Boston, Shane Keelin,( he was an understudy of my original surgeon at one point in the US)

On this occasion I choose age before beauty and decide to stick with my origional surgeon and surgical option which was kind similar,,,, ULAR AND PART TRANSANAL!!!!!

it ended up being as as such because I had a tummy tuck 4 years ago and had a bad dose of skin necrosis and a lot of scar tissue so when they went to blow up my stomach with air it wouldn't work because of the scar tissue so I imagine that's why, ( pretty much working blind) and most of the complicated work was near the anal opening so makes sense really I suppose :)
but he was delighted with the proceedure and so was I so in the end I got the surgery that I turned down lol
Minimal recovery 3 lapo scars, one drain and that's it, hopefully the coloplasty will be sufficient enough for decent control afterwards

Only time will tell,
Don't panic about waiting for radiation,,, everyone does including me, I was DX DEC 4TH began radiation JAN 3RD it's a complicated process of mapping it tumor exactly so it takes time, and it's not going to advance within a few weeks, u've probably had it for years,,,

My head melt was waiting from my scan/mri results so I totally understand how Ur feeling,,,
Ur life is effectively on that piece of paper

Try relax because u can't change the results only deal with what they are ( easier said that done I know) I didn't sleep for 4 days waiting mine,,,,,

Think positive and hopefully u will have a good outcome

Adele X


You are so chilled ... are you supposed to have ok before owel control during it do you know ? Xx


Also noticed you had Zelda ? Is yhat the same a capecitibine ? Does your hair get affected ? I know not most important .. but !

Eleda
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:28 am
Facebook Username: adele Morgan
Location: Ireland

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Eleda » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Yes Ann it is xeloda,,,,
No my hair was ok ( so far lol)
I'm very chilled,
There nothing I can't deal with,
This is a pain in the ASS LOL in my life butttttt that's all,
( An inconvenience for a year)
I'm getting ready as we speek to go out for drinks and bingo lol
I mainly had issues with my uretha during radiation
Yes burning bum but like Mike I reduced my food
" Not smart" buy less n less out!!!!!
And showered my bum after every pop, because I also had hemies,
But I'm all for less suffering, so whatever it takes I'll do

Adele X
SWF, 47
Mom to 3 sons 6/8/12
Dec4th 2017 colonoscopy for minor intermittent rectal bleeding during Summer
CEA 4.4
DX T3 L3C M0 2.5/3 cm above AV.
JAN 3RD started 1650mg Zelda 2xday, with 28 radiation
Did tagamet 800mg daily and 75mg IV VIT C WEEKLY UNTIL SURGERY and
Tumor reduce by 80% 1 LN still remaining
TATME May10th, temp illeostomy
10/07/2018 CEA 3
MMR INTACT
Began FOLFOX July 10th
24/08/2018 Allergic reaction so next infusion lucovorin and 5fu
CEA 4
Second attempt with oxi aug 12th

Caat55
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Caat55 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:12 pm

Annie50 wrote:
NHMike wrote:
Annie50 wrote:Thanks so much ..why don't they give a stronger chemo ? Is the radiation good enough to get rid of any lymph involvement or stray cells ? ..


Radiation will eventually kill anything in its way. If the stray cells have left the area via the bloodstream, then radiation can't go after it as the therapy is isolated.

Chemo works through the bloodstream so chemo can help prevent spread that way.


Hi thanks so much you seem so knowledgeable. Yes what worries me is waitibg these 2- 3 weeks since diagnosis to have the radio therapy planning and only starting next wed ! They seem so relaxed about it but surely it could spread in that time ? They don't seem worried .. ( say no clinical need to speed up ? Xxxx



I had to wait a few weeks before starting radiation, had trips planned and tests to get done. It didn't effect results, only scarring when they went in for surgery per doctor. Aquaphor isn't enough. Get Miadem or prescription Biafine. My skin was/is so damaged, raw and irritated , worse again now from chemo.
Xeloda doesn't cause hair to fall out. No one can tell I have/ had cancer unless they see the occasional bump from mynileostomy. People actually forget and then apologize when they complain about an ailment or problem.
Susan
55 y.o. Female
Dx 9/26/17 RC Stage 3
Completed 33 rad. tx, xeolda 12/8/17
MRI and PET 1/18 sign. regression
Surgery 1/31/18 Ileostomy, clean margins, no lymph node involved
Port 3/1/2018
Oxaliplatin and Xeloda start 3/22/18
Last Oxaliplatin 7/5/18, 5 rounds
CT NED 9/2018

justin case
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 am
Location: Katy, Texas

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby justin case » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:26 pm

weisssoccermom wrote:The chemo is reduced because it would be difficult for patients to tolerate both at the same time. Hence the chemo is lighter. The radiation does most of the work but studies have shown that when chemo is added to radiation it increases the likelihood that the radiation will be more successful.
Actually not all patients have their tumor eradicated by the radiation. Many show some shrinkage....some show minimal...although the latter is rare. It is also very uncommon for patients to have a complete pathological response from the chemoradiation but it is not unheard of.

Interesting concept, but I had Folfox with my radiation, as I had a separate tumor in the sigmoid .
Michael
7/11 diagnosed Stage 2 colon and rectal cancer
chemo/rad
lar/temp ilio
Reversal & port removal
21 round of chemo Folfox 9tx, 5fu 12 tx
Last treatment July 2012

weisssoccermom
Posts: 5878
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby weisssoccermom » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:18 pm

The FOLFOX likely was a weaker strength than when you had adjuvant chemo.
Dx 6/22/2006 IIA rectal cancer
6 wks rad/Xeloda -finished 9/06
1st attempt transanal excision 11/06
11/17/06 XELOX 1 cycle
5 months Xeloda only Dec '06 - April '07
10+ blood clots, 1 DVT 1/07
transanal excision 4/20/07 path-NO CANCER CELLS!
NED now and forever!
Perform random acts of kindness

Annie50
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Annie50 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:41 pm

Eleda wrote:Yes Ann it is xeloda,,,,
No my hair was ok ( so far lol)
I'm very chilled,
There nothing I can't deal with,
This is a pain in the ASS LOL in my life butttttt that's all,
( An inconvenience for a year)
I'm getting ready as we speek to go out for drinks and bingo lol
I mainly had issues with my uretha during radiation
Yes burning bum but like Mike I reduced my food
" Not smart" buy less n less out!!!!!
And showered my bum after every pop, because I also had hemies,
But I'm all for less suffering, so whatever it takes I'll do

Adele X


Wish me Luck I start tomorrow.. very nervous, what's very scary is that I feel and look so well ? Did everyone feel like that ? xxxx Annie

Eleda
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:28 am
Facebook Username: adele Morgan
Location: Ireland

Re: Surviving radiation for rectal cancer

Postby Eleda » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:13 pm

Good luck Anne,,,,
U'll be fine,,,,,
For me that was not too bad so hopefully will be the same for u..........
Fingers crossed for u
ADELE X
SWF, 47
Mom to 3 sons 6/8/12
Dec4th 2017 colonoscopy for minor intermittent rectal bleeding during Summer
CEA 4.4
DX T3 L3C M0 2.5/3 cm above AV.
JAN 3RD started 1650mg Zelda 2xday, with 28 radiation
Did tagamet 800mg daily and 75mg IV VIT C WEEKLY UNTIL SURGERY and
Tumor reduce by 80% 1 LN still remaining
TATME May10th, temp illeostomy
10/07/2018 CEA 3
MMR INTACT
Began FOLFOX July 10th
24/08/2018 Allergic reaction so next infusion lucovorin and 5fu
CEA 4
Second attempt with oxi aug 12th


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